Need help Building 64bit Linux system - from scratch.

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  03 March 2014
Okay I see what they are doing at Ubuntu Forums.

If you click register it states: "Login now by means of Ubuntu One SSO only" which I took to mean you had to have Linux and use their Ubuntu One chat thing. I see they re-re-direct you back to the link you gave further down in the registration thread.

As for the password thing in the Terminal - no - it's not working when the little dots don't show when typing and nothing appears. If you hit enter after typing the password and nothing shows. It re-asks for the password again - and if you type and nothing appears and hit enter - it asks for the password again. When the dots appear when typing the password and then hit enter - it does what ever it's been asked to do.

And no - I haven't given up. But keep in mind - not everyone is connected. On my entire street there is only maybe 3 people that have permanent Internet connections. And for what they pay - and what they get - [dial up speeds]. It's not worth it.

When I get re-situated some where else - I'll be getting a connection. But not here and if I did have one. I don't put my workstations on line. I never do.

anyway - I'm rambling off topic.

I do see what Ubuntu is doing with their integrated software manager - trying to take some of the complication out of having Linux and installing the applications you need.

I guess that is where Cube and other software managers come in as well. I get that.


I read a thread How to install software in Linux

It goes over all the various ways software gets installed in Linux and the various builds with some pro's and cons of each.

And again Olson, thanx for all the info. I do appreciate it.

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EDIT:

After much more research on Linux I found some info I think will help anyone trying out Linux for the first time - or are offline as I am. I came back to share my findings.

If one is off line - as mentioned before you can build an off line repository - the links I gave in earlier posts will go through the many way to create one as well as install.
It can be upwards of 30 gigs from what I was reading.

An alternative is to try and find a distro that suites your need.

You can do a really good search - need dependant as well as a bunch of other criteria over at DistroWatch.com.

These are some Linux Distro's I found in my search there designed specifically for A/V and Graphics creation that from what I'm reading already have the softwares installed.

They are as follows:

APODIO

ArtistX

AV Linux

DreamStudio / Celeum

Musix GNU+Linux

Ubuntu Studio

There may be more geared towards A/V and Graphic Creation but those are the ones I found.

Things to check are on the software side - if you look at the packages or click on the link that says "software" - it will give you all they include and some will tell you the version number.

AV Linux seems to have a pretty updated list of apps as well as a lot of them. Unfortunatly it's seems to be only 32 bit at this time.

Others such as Apodio, ArtistX, Musix and DreamStudio are pretty packed with apps while at the time of this writing Ubuntu Studio has the least but still good ones included.

Not being familiar with Linux or the apps they include outside of Blender and Gimp - what the heck I'm going to try all the above distro's. And found that there is a program designed to allow you to do just that called UNetbooten.

What it does and I'll just quote from the UNetbootin site:

"UNetbootin allows you to create bootable Live USB drives for Ubuntu, Fedora, and other Linux distributions without burning a CD. It runs on Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X. You can either let UNetbootin download one of the many distributions supported out-of-the-box for you, or supply your own Linux .iso file if you've already downloaded one or your preferred distribution isn't on the list."

There are other apps that allow you to burn from ISO to DVD/USB, what I liked was you had options and can download additional packages I believe using this one as well as autodownload and create from a internal distro list.

I hope that helps anyone running into this page.

In the beginning, especially being offline - adding Software or updating is 100% confusing and frustrating. I hope this additional info makes it easier.

I'm one of those that though I don't mind getting my hands a little dirty building, I'm not looking for a programming or compiling project to start, I'd much rather be spending my time flying the plane rather than a ton of time spent on building it.

So I hope these distro's will allow you or myself to do just that. As I get more into Linux and the apps - then customize and tailor the build if I so choose to..

- chase -

Last edited by chasecanade : 03 March 2014 at 05:41 PM.
 
  03 March 2014
I tried several versions and I will concede to you Olson, yes, with out an off line repository, for someone like me just starting out, you need an internet connection.

Every distro that I've tried thus far, has one or more needs to connect to the repository for updates and dependencies - drivers etc.

Though in saying so, the common factor in each and every distro I tried was the wireless internet connection was not available after install.

Unless you can connect via nick card or cat 5 (hard wire), you can't get to the internet to update or install drivers needed for wireless, etc.

Knowing how to install at least the wireless needs offline would be important and something you'd want to research and download the necessary drivers etc just incase, prior to any install.

Other than that, I was impressed. I truly was. Though not familiar with any of the Linux available apps, the ones I played with or used, like the ISO burner, even just though it's just a utility app, I really liked it.

Dream Studio mentioned above has a 64bit version. It's Unity 12.03.4 based on Ubuntu.
- I installed it last night. It handled the HD partition real nice. And as I mentioned before, has a ton of apps. Which gave me a chance to look around and see what they are, and do.

But the one app I was hoping to get into was Blender 3D - and naturally, the only app that wouldn't work, wouldn't even open. I take it it was due to needed updates DreamStudio was asking for.

Ubuntu Studio has a 64bit version as well. And one other.

I tried the 32bit distro's AV Linux etc via usb - they are real nice.

If I had a 64bit laptop (mines 32bit) I would imagine you could update and build a distro via USB and then just install it to a computer offline already updated. Not positive but from what I'm reading it seems highly probable. Unfortunately as mentioned my laptop is 32bit and obviously can't boot to 64bit Linux.

Something that really caught my interest was an included app in Dream Studio called "WINE" and "WINE Tricks"

I've heard of it but never knew what it was. Apparently from what I read of the description in the App Manager, Wine allows you to run Windows apps on Linux...?

I did open it up which it takes you into the Wine configuration and briefly looked it over.
It lists all Windows versions up to the most recent Windows 8.1 listed.
That got a silent "Wow!" from me. If it really works I might just go Linux on all my machines.

It has me curious if they made something for MAC applications as well.

On my way to do some research into using Wine and Wine tricks.

It would be nice to be able to run C4D R13 or the R15 demo or some of the other apps I use on a Linux machine. If they can run without issues that is.

- chase -

Last edited by chasecanade : 03 March 2014 at 05:46 PM.
 
  03 March 2014
Originally Posted by chasecanade: Though in saying so, the common factor in each and every distro I tried was the wireless internet connection was not available after install.


This is dependent upon the hardware. Some wireless chipsets are not supported by the Linux kernel. Sometimes there are binary drivers available from the manufacturer, sometimes not. Can you post what wireless chipset you have? You can use the command "lshw -class network" to find out, or "lspci" but that lists everything (not just network adapters).

Originally Posted by chasecanade: Something that really caught my interest was an included app in Dream Studio called "WINE" and "WINE Tricks"

I've heard of it but never knew what it was. Apparently from what I read of the description in the App Manager, Wine allows you to run Windows apps on Linux...?


Sort of. It's a compatibility layer which mimics functions Windows would otherwise provide to an application like the file browser that comes up when saving a file from an application, or translating Direct 3D graphics calls which then get rendered with OpenGL. Not all functions that Windows provides have been reversed engineered and so some applications make requests that go unanswered. Compatibility is hit and miss depending on what the applications are asking for. Typically older applications have better support running with Wine.

Originally Posted by chasecanade: It has me curious if they made something for MAC applications as well.


There's Darling but it's not anywhere close to ready for day to day use. It could be many years before there's something worth working with there.

http://www.darlinghq.org/

Originally Posted by chasecanade: It would be nice to be able to run C4D R13 or the R15 demo or some of the other apps I use on a Linux machine. If they can run without issues that is.


I'm not sure about Cinema 4D because I've never tried it. I know Cinebench runs fine on Linux with Wine though. According to the AppDB for Wine the latest release of Cinema 4D is rated as garbage which means completely unusable. Older versions like Cinema 4D R11 apparently ran well with Wine (had a platinum rating, the highest).

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManag...rsion&iId=29258

I'm honestly a little surprised Cinema 4D doesn't have a Linux native version. Most other major 3D applications have Linux native versions. If you haven't yet check out virtual machines like VirtualBox. It allows one operating system to run inside of another one which can be handy if there's just one or two things you still need to do in Windows but don't want to dual boot.
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  03 March 2014
Originally Posted by olson: I'm honestly a little surprised Cinema 4D doesn't have a Linux native version. Most other major 3D applications have Linux native versions. If you haven't yet check out virtual machines like VirtualBox. It allows one operating system to run inside of another one which can be handy if there's just one or two things you still need to do in Windows but don't want to dual boot.


Cinema 4D does make a Linux version however, from what I understand, and this is from not re-looking at the page. The Linux version must be requested from Maxon and is for Professional Studio's only. Though, I'm going by what was posted in a thread on the subject. Not a quote from Maxon.

On the subject of the password in the Terminal.

In Ubuntu 13.10 - it's as stated previously. It would keep asking for the password till it finally showed the little dots.

However - I installed DreamStudio Untiy 12.04.3 which is based on Ubuntu 12.04
When using the Terminal - yes - the password did not show the dots and was excepted.

As well DreamStudio handled the HD partitions a lot better than 13.10.

I'm using Cube to update the repository for DreamStudio - so far so good in the download. I haven't gotten back to my offline comp t install - but so far so good. I'm not sure if when you update the repository it updates drivers as well, but I'll find out when installing these updates tonight.

Originally Posted by olsen: This is dependent upon the hardware. Some wireless chipsets are not supported by the Linux kernel. Sometimes there are binary drivers available from the manufacturer, sometimes not. Can you post what wireless chipset you have? You can use the command "lshw -class network" to find out, or "lspci" but that lists everything (not just network adapters).


I was looking at that last night as a matter of fact - ran some command to see what hardware was listed.

My Card is a TrendNet Dual N PCI card- it showed a Realtek N something, something. I didn't write it down. I'm hoping using Cube will update and install all needed. But will write it down and post it in the next couple days.

I don't have a wireless connection - but someone turned me on to a high powered [28dbi] 2.4/5ghz 12volt powered Antenna build I wanted to try out - hence the card.

In the Bahamas/Abaco - he was getting a range of 5-15 miles while on a Reality Show shoot. That range was on the ocean I remind you. I'm hoping for a 3 to 5mile landbased range with a 20foot height on the antenna. We'll see...

For my Laptop - let me look at it... It states the following
Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2200BG Network Connection
Broadcom 440x 10/100 Integrated Controller

I've tried a few 32bit distro's - including Knoppix again - the wireless hasn't worked with any of them. At least not booting from USB or Disk thus far.
- Unless you're supposed to do something extra to get it to work..? Not positive, but I would think not.

- chase -
 
  03 March 2014
Hey Olson,

I ended up doing quite a bit over the week-end. Got some new gear to try and see if I could over come what I thought might be an issue with Win7. It wasn't...

I did find a wireless adapter that the distro's I have recognized as well. Figures the cheapest one - which works better than my high priced card wifi btw - it recognizes. I think the key is to look for gear that is made for both Win and Mac. I don't know...?

I'm trying out AVLinux 6.03 and as a matter of fact I'm using it now [attached screenshot] after creating a boot-able USB which in itself was trial and error. But it recognized my stock wifi as well as the portable N wifi - [which was recognized by DreamStudio on my desktop as well.]

I take it Linux doesn't like usb drives formated using the NSF? And had to try a couple different USB boot creators - but got it to finally boot up. "Universal USB Boot creator" - I noticed it reformated the usb to FAT32 before install.

AVLinux isn't 64bit but... its running as I'm sure others would on my laptiop
It does have most everything up to date - Blender 2.69 - didn't ask for any updates or state it was missing anything - except with Wine.

I hate to say it but I'm probably going to toss the HP Duo. Not waste anymore time with it.
I think there is a controller issue. I know there is - but my thought is it's the MB.

But in looking at Linux - these low latency builds, what Linux has to offer. I'm leaning towards picking up a in-expensive ($300-$400) Quad core - 2.8 - 3.2ghz build and put Linux on it.

And do some more research on how these builds / distro's are made. I'm sure there has to be some pdf's out there on how to go about building a Linux Machine for AV and Graphics.

I still have questions but for the most part I'd probably be better off asking in the Ubuntu or distro specific boards imo.

One question, what file format does Linux use, when looking at the HD magager in Win7 - it didn't say what format the Linux partitions were.


And again - thanx for the help the explanations etc

and your patience with my newb to Linux questions.

- chase -
Attached Images
File Type: jpg AVLinux-scrnsht.jpg (67.9 KB, 3 views)
 
  03 March 2014
Originally Posted by chasecanade: I did find a wireless adapter that the distro's I have recognized as well. Figures the cheapest one - which works better than my high priced card wifi btw - it recognizes. I think the key is to look for gear that is made for both Win and Mac. I don't know...?


Price doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not something will be supported in Linux. For example a $100 high end wireless NIC from Netgear won't have support for Linux because Netgear simply doesn't support anything on Linux. A $10 wireless NIC with a Realtek chipset from a random manufacturer probably will be supported on Linux because Realtek has open source drivers that are frequently updated. Not saying always buy stuff with Realtek chips, just saying some vendors support Linux really well and some don't all.

Originally Posted by chasecanade: I take it Linux doesn't like usb drives formated using the NSF? And had to try a couple different USB boot creators - but got it to finally boot up. "Universal USB Boot creator" - I noticed it reformated the usb to FAT32 before install.


NTFS is a file system native to Windows. Linux can read and write NTFS with a few caveats but it's not going to work with more advanced things like using it as a bootable file system.

Originally Posted by chasecanade: One question, what file format does Linux use, when looking at the HD magager in Win7 - it didn't say what format the Linux partitions were.


Linux supports a wide range of file systems with varying features. Most Linux distributions use ext4 by default. Windows won't be able to understand ext4, or most other Linux file systems for that matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext4

If you need to be able to access data from multiple platforms the best option is to setup a file server so the file system is accessed indirectly through networking protocols (like SMB or NFS), that way it doesn't matter what platform you're using as long as it can access the file server. Here's some more reading about different file systems if you're interested (not comprehensive, there are many more out there).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS
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  03 March 2014
Hey Olson,

funny you mentioned building a server as I was checking out a build of a micro server using a old laptop.

I happen to have a duo-core 2.0ghz laptop I had kept around. Couldn't get it to take the Sony OS they sent (for a fee) I pulled it out just for the gee wize and sure enough it did work with a bootable USB using AVLinux.

But, I really don't have a use for a server yet, I don't know what I'd do with one given my limited needs.

Right now my thought is on getting back to creating and that I can't do with out a decent comp.

And having sat down this past week on a Core I7 3.3ghz machine am looking around at some builds.

That and trying to figure out how the heck I locked up a new USB drive moving files from my XP storage drive to Linux to USB. Locked it up tighter than a drum. And yeah - I've tried a bunch of ways to take it back - but nothing is working.

Anyway - I saw you posted. Wanted to again say thanks for the info.

I'm keeping my eye out for kick butt 32bit system along the way as I really want to try out AV Linux some more. Some really killer apps in there. Shame he's not deving a 64bit version.

take care
- chase -
 
  03 March 2014
Originally Posted by chasecanade: That and trying to figure out how the heck I locked up a new USB drive moving files from my XP storage drive to Linux to USB. Locked it up tighter than a drum. And yeah - I've tried a bunch of ways to take it back - but nothing is working.


If reformatting the flash drive doesn't fix it then it may simply have failed and it was just a coincidence that it was while you were using Linux (doesn't mean Linux broke it).

Originally Posted by chasecanade: I'm keeping my eye out for kick butt 32bit system along the way as I really want to try out AV Linux some more. Some really killer apps in there. Shame he's not deving a 64bit version.


You can use 32-bit software on a 64-bit system but I'd suggest a distribution with a 64-bit release. Looks like AV Linux is focused mostly on audio recording which doesn't require a lot of memory relatively speaking so 32-bit works well enough in that case. Should just be called "A Linux" instead (for audio). If you want to do 3D rendering, compositing, video editing and other tasks that require more memory then I'd consider 64-bit a necessity.
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  04 April 2014
Originally Posted by olson: If reformatting the flash drive doesn't fix it then it may simply have failed and it was just a coincidence that it was while you were using Linux (doesn't mean Linux broke it).


Not blaming Linux per say- more the sequence of events of trying to move from an XP drive [fat 32] to Linux [ext4] to the flash drive [NTSF] may be the issue.

Further more it was a new drive - I mean less than a month old - I have several from the same manufacturer and all are 6months to a couple years old, so this just dying after making this data move - I'm not sure that's the case.

Both Win7 and Linux were literally struggling to get the files off the drive. a 4gig and 6 gig storage drive (there were two) took over six hours to get the files off of. yet they worked fine in the system I took them out of. (I gave away the comp or I would have moved them prior)

I'm not sure what happened. Or why it took so long to move the data. Only talking a few hundred megs of data. And I tested that they were accessible after moving them.

It's showing it's full - and that it has both a Logtical partion and Primary partition with both showing total capacity of the drive.
And keeps writing to itself. ie: if I were to plug it in now - it would write all the internet temp files to it.

I had previously formatted it and the only thing that can be formatted is what was the system files. Other than that - it's locked claiming it's write protected.

So it's not bad - just locked up. It won't let me format it partition it.
I can scan it...?

Even tried some software to try and take it back but - no go.
I did use G-Part on it once before trying to make a swap partition and primary for AV Linux.
Maybe I messed up something when I did that - perhaps the drives code...? I don't know.

Something screwed up somewhere. Unfortunately the manufacturer hasn't provided a flash utility or I try that to get it back that way.

I'll keep it and try again in the future.


Originally Posted by olson: You can use 32-bit software on a 64-bit system but I'd suggest a distribution with a 64-bit release. Looks like AV Linux is focused mostly on audio recording which doesn't require a lot of memory relatively speaking so 32-bit works well enough in that case. Should just be called "A Linux" instead (for audio). If you want to do 3D rendering, compositing, video editing and other tasks that require more memory then I'd consider 64-bit a necessity.


Yeah - the developer of AV Linux said "not yet" when it comes to a 64bit release. And I have used it on that Duo-Core laptop I mentioned - it's pretty quick.

And yes - he pretty much made it for Audio and Video.
But I will disagree with what you stated about audio not needing much memory. That is one of the bigger complaints about him holding to 32bit is the need for the ability to utilize more memory as these audio apps are rather memory hogs.

In my own experience - at least on a Win machine - they use a huge amount of memory. Many pre-load sound files in the tracks into memory. But that is on a Win machine with Win apps. Some that I own are pretty intense and require a good heavy duty DAW to really run at full potential.

What he states is they are not as CPU intensive as 3D apps. And he didn't see a huge plus in going 64bit on the newer machines as he didn't notice a real difference in speed - but that was three years ago. And he has been asked again a year ago to go 64bit. It ended up the same - "not yet"

He has Blender in the release - but I think he added it primarily for the Video editing and minimal 3D creation.

It really is a nice release - if you look at what he's done to make it a self contained all inclusive ready to use release out of the box. It reminds me of my XP - it took a couple years to fine tune it to get it to where it was and probably the only reason my comp lasted so long.

lol - I was looking at the old drives - the ones I was removing the data from. It humored me to see that on a 4gig drive the amount of software I was running.

And further to see some of the stuff I had made that I hadn't seen in several years - sucks to have lost it all in the end. (it's on the locked flash drive) but interesting to look back and go - "Gosh - I made that...?" and "That effect came out pretty cool! How the keck did I do that...?"

So much for digital stuff being there a hundred years from now - I have saved back-up of all types and media formats just to find a few years later either the media was garbage or files couldn't be read by todays apps.

And it's always the stuff I really wanted to save or access and of course it's the stuff I can't get back and don't have another back up of.

Anyway...
- My build is coming along. Gather up the parts - Got my drives - new Power Supply and some other oddities
- I'm going to use the GC I have though looking to get a newer higher end one in the future.

I had a couple cases I bought a few years back (for builds I never did). Which sucks that I didn't/couldn't do the build at the time as I discovered I had new drives - hot swaps bays - new dvde writers, and great cables - but all IDE and out dated now in storage.
But..
- I may use one of the cases. It's a Briza e-6099 8-Bay ATX Mid Tower Computer Case.



Still deciding or I may sell this one since it's NIB and go with something new and a little bigger as I really am leaning towards a server board or at least a Dual CPU board. Or I could use it for a smaller build. We'll see, as I haven't made up my mind yet.

Either way, I hope to finish it this month if all goes well.

- chase -
 
  04 April 2014
AV Linux uses a realtime kernel. Only two reasons to use a realtime kernel, digital audio recording and industrial machine control. Using a realtime kernel has significant disadvantages for any other purpose (32-bit only, single processor core only). Do what you want though.
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  04 April 2014
Originally Posted by olson: AV Linux uses a realtime kernel. Only two reasons to use a realtime kernel, digital audio recording and industrial machine control. Using a realtime kernel has significant disadvantages for any other purpose (32-bit only, single processor core only). Do what you want though.


Hey Olson
okay - you caught my interest with what you were saying about AV Linux using a realtime kernel and it having significant disadvantages.

Would you mind expounding on that a little? And one over another type distro as well.

I take it - since you state there are only two reasons to use it, one being for digital audio recording. It has some advantages in this regard.

And a thought of clarification, do you mean the advantage would be only for live recording or for DAW's in general? Mastering, using multiple effects busses, etc, etc.?

(haven't dove into what's going on OS architecture wise let alone the Linux architecture, I'm learning as I go here)

Which brings to mind another question I was meaning to ask you, what is the real difference between Linux and Windows architecture wise. And given MS is moving away from legacy - are they following similar paths architecture wise?

Do you think due to MS's change in architecture with Win8 and obviously going to completely change in future releases - this will have an effect on Hardware as well?
and will Linux be changing it's architecture as well?

- chase -
 
  04 April 2014
Originally Posted by chasecanade: And a thought of clarification, do you mean the advantage would be only for live recording or for DAW's in general? Mastering, using multiple effects busses, etc, etc.?


Only live recording and MIDI instruments benefit from this. All other processing like effects are done in post so being realtime (i.e. low latency) doesn't matter at that point in production.

Originally Posted by chasecanade: Which brings to mind another question I was meaning to ask you, what is the real difference between Linux and Windows architecture wise. And given MS is moving away from legacy - are they following similar paths architecture wise?


There are a lot of similarities and a lot of differences between the two but I'm not sure what specifically you're wanting to know. Also what do you mean by legacy?

Originally Posted by chasecanade: Do you think due to MS's change in architecture with Win8 and obviously going to completely change in future releases - this will have an effect on Hardware as well?
and will Linux be changing it's architecture as well?


Nothing major changed with Windows 8 from an architecture standpoint, just a lot of little refinements. It's a continuation of Windows NT (just like Windows 2000, XP, Vista, 7, etc.). The big changes are cosmetic or marketing (like a new user interface and a new app store).
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  04 April 2014
Originally Posted by olson: There are a lot of similarities and a lot of differences between the two but I'm not sure what specifically you're wanting to know. Also what do you mean by legacy?


I'm not sure exactly what I mean either - hence I was asking in general.
I thought there was a major difference between the two.

On a funny note - when I was looking up whtat the differences were, one writing stated the the biggest difference between the two operating systems (Windows and Linux) is... the cost. Windows costs - Linux is free.

I really don't know what I mean - then again I do in a way. I just don't know how to ask it really. I would think that architecutally there had to be some major differences.
Perhaps in how they communicate with the hardware - or - software.

I don't know, I thought there would be some big difference between the two - structurally.

As stated - I know what I mean - just not how to ask the question.

Originally Posted by olson: Nothing major changed with Windows 8 from an architecture standpoint, just a lot of little refinements. It's a continuation of Windows NT (just like Windows 2000, XP, Vista, 7, etc.). The big changes are cosmetic or marketing (like a new user interface and a new app store).


From what I understood - Windows was completely going in some other direction. Refering to the past XP-2000-Vista and Win7 to a degree, as all being under the "Legacy" architecture - all older machines which ran on "Legacy" which I hadn't heard about till Win8 was announced wouldn't work running on the new Win 8 architecture. And Win8 was supposed to be written from the ground up going to some new direction and architecture.
Some new way of doing things from what I understood and was the general jist of what I read.

This is what I read now - not first hand knowledge. And the new architecture was being called... something - I can't find it - (sorry, in a rush. I have to get something done before finishing up here in the next few minutes for the day)
When I get back online I'll try and find it.
Then again you may already know what they're calling it.

It was supposed to be new is all I remember - some new architecture.

- chase -

Last edited by chasecanade : 04 April 2014 at 10:53 PM.
 
  04 April 2014
Originally Posted by chasecanade: On a funny note - when I was looking up whtat the differences were, one writing stated the the biggest difference between the two operating systems (Windows and Linux) is... the cost. Windows costs - Linux is free.


License cost is only one factor. Even if Windows had no license fee (free as in beer) I still wouldn't use it for computer graphics production. The "free" that matters is the open source code, the free as in freedom.

Originally Posted by chasecanade: From what I understood - Windows was completely going in some other direction. Refering to the past XP-2000-Vista and Win7 to a degree, as all being under the "Legacy" architecture - all older machines which ran on "Legacy" which I hadn't heard about till Win8 was announced wouldn't work running on the new Win 8 architecture. And Win8 was supposed to be written from the ground up going to some new direction and architecture.
Some new way of doing things from what I understood and was the general jist of what I read.


Windows 8 wasn't written again from the group up, it's a continuation of the same product line with new features and refined features (still the same foundation though). It would take many years to do something like write an operating system again from the ground up. See "Things You Should Never Do, Part 1" about the subject of writing software again from the ground up.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/artic...0000000069.html
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  04 April 2014
Originally Posted by olson: Windows 8 wasn't written again from the group up, it's a continuation of the same product line with new features and refined features (still the same foundation though). It would take many years to do something like write an operating system again from the ground up. See "Things You Should Never Do, Part 1" about the subject of writing software again from the ground up.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/artic...0000000069.html


Thanks for the link - I'll take a look at it as it sounds like interesting reading.

btw - I read something last night that explains what is happening and remembered when it was first presented to me as pre-Win7/8 was based on "Legacy". As mentioned I've been seeing this mentioned on the web but remembered it was something I first heard from some of the guys at a computer store when we were talking.

They and others on the web are using the term "Legacy" out of context, as if it's the name of the architecture. And probably mentioned the code name for Win7 or Win8 as it was the new architecture...
I knew I hadn't heard of it before, but I've been out of the loop so long didn't really question it being several of the computer sales people were stating the same thing and I was reading it online more often than not in the same context. I did so yesterday as a matter of fact when trying to find out more about the "Legacy" architecture and the differences to the new Windows Architecture.

When used in the correct context and I'll just quote Wiki on this:

Quote: Legacy System - definition:

In computing a legacy system is an old method, technology, computer system, or application program.

The term first came into use in 1990 meaning "of, relating to, or being a previous or outdated computer system."

A more recent definition says that "a legacy system is any corporate computer system that isn't Internet-dependent." The term "legacy" may also have little to do with the size or age of the system — mainframes run 64-bit Linux and Java alongside 1960s vintage code.


And while I'm at it from Techopidia the definition of "legacy system"


Quote: Definition - What does Legacy System mean?

A legacy system, in the context of computing, refers to outdated computer systems, programming languages or application software that are used instead of available upgraded versions.

Legacy systems also may be associated with terminology or processes that are no longer applicable to current contexts or content, thus creating confusion. In theory, it would be great to be able to have immediate access to use the most advanced technology. But in reality, most organizations have legacy systems - to some extent. A legacy system may be problematic, due to compatibility issues, obsoletion or lack of security support.

A legacy system is also known as a legacy platform.

Techopedia explains Legacy System

A legacy system is not necessarily defined by age. Legacy may refer to lack of vendor support or a system's incapacity to meet organizational requirements. For example, a large mainframe may use a 64-bit Java, while a Linux platform might utilize code from the 1960s. Legacy conditions refer to a system's difficulty (or inability) to be maintained, supported or improved. A legacy system is usually incompatible with newly purchased systems.

Legacy systems are high maintenance and may involve intricate patching and modifications. Porting techniques are often used for software adjustments or adaptation. Older hardware may require added compatibility layers to facilitate device functionality in incompatible environments.

An organization might continue to use legacy systems for a wide range of reasons, such as the following:

•"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" The system might work adequately.
•The system is complex, and documentation is poor. Simply defining scope can be difficult.
•A redesign is costly, due to complexity or monolithic architecture.

Posted by: Cory Janssen


And PC Mag on "legacy application"

Quote: Definition of: legacy application

An application that was written for an earlier operating system or hardware platform. For example, mainframe applications were legacy apps when the world embraced client/server networks. Windows 3.1 applications were legacy apps when Windows 95 was introduced. Windows 7 applications running in Windows 8 are called legacy apps.

Any business software that is not Internet enabled in some form is sometimes considered a legacy application.

They Hang Around
Although many are eager to embrace the newest and latest, there is an investment in older software, which is sometimes substantial. Legacy applications tend to remain in use far longer than anyone predicts. In some cases, they thrive, such as mainframe applications. Even DOS applications are running today under 32-bit versions of Windows (see XyWrite). See legacy system.



Well that cleared that up for me - hopefully it does for others that may have been told the same out of context.

"Legacy" is not the name of ... as many are referring to it as.

I was seriously dreading upgrading to Win7 and Win8 due to what I was told. lol
- Now I feel a little more relaxed about upgrading to Win7 or Win8.



I have been looking around the web pertaining to my question - some leaned towards what I'm trying to ask (un-successfully)

Though dated [2012] - you might find this one of interest as I did. He touchs on some of the differences - being new to Linux I found it interesting and learned some things.

7 Key Differences between Windows and Linux you should know about before switching

A couple things I wasn't clear on and others I just wasn't aware of.

My question comes about after seeing a render test done in Blender on a Windows 7 or 8 machine versus the same render done on the same machine running Linux.

The render completed 41% faster on Linux than on Windows. And I was wonder why. What makes Linux that much faster - and what the differences between the two were.

And after hearing the changes to the architecture of Win7/8 and how some are claiming Win7/8 to be a faster more efficient architecture - if it was leaning towards the Linux architecture. Not understanding or having a clear vision as to the differences in how XP was written and structured versus Win7/8.

It is written on the web in several places I read briefly that Windows was taking a different direction in its architecture. Making it more efficient.

I'm trying to compare the two I guess. Get the whys answered.

It can suck being such the inquisitive bastard I am at times... lol
I've always gotta ask 'why'

Anyway - I'm probably boring to you to death with my questions and N00bness. And writing books for posts, so I'll let you go.

It was fun conversing. Now I'm focusing on trying to wrap my head around the new gear.
Dispensing the hype and erroneous and/or exaggerated claims of speeds and blah blah blah and get the MB and CPU picked out.
I discovered early on one must have exact MB model numbers and cross check to get the one you really want from these computer stores. They like to leave out some of the numbers and revision letters...

I may (pretty sure I will) pick up a new main drive. I was reading about the differences between Consumer and Enterprise SSD HD's last night. Pretty interesting and big speed and accuracy differences.
Everyone should look into that one before buying a new drive.

I have a few picked out to choose from - now just crunching the numbers and cross checking before finalizing my decision on which one.

- chase -
 
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