Dominance War II Local Rules and Issues

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  02 February 2007
I was looking through the majority of the cgtalk entries, and it seems like the majority translated the brief saying, race of ancients as: other normal humans on some other planet.

rather odd imo. I felt rather sure that it meant crazy high tech high sci fi alien race, but most of you seem to think they have lots of human snipers...
  02 February 2007
I have a couple of questions:

Firstly are we supposed to create our character in a neutral bind pose and then pose them once completed or can we model them from scratch in their dynamic pose? I can understand why you'd want a bind pose but it does mean a lot more work to rig and skin. Also if we can model to a set pose do you have any problems with baking lighting based on that pose? For a real games character this would create issues when moving but for this it would be really nice to be able to do.

Secondly what are we allowed to do when crating the final beauty image? Does it all have to be viewport hardware shaders or are we supposed to render it?

edit: I've just remembered another point, I'm guessing that if we are doing viewport shading then we can't use any mirrored UV space. At least in maya if you flip UVs then it flips the normal map direction as well, I'm not sure if it does this in other programs or not.

Last edited by MattBirkett-Smith : 02 February 2007 at 10:08 AM.
  02 February 2007
I can answer some of your questions.

No one has ever asked that question about modeling it in pose... I could see that causing significant problems with the unwrap if you wanted to have any shared UV space between things like arms and hands and legs or whatever. I certainly dont think doing it your way would be encouraged considering that you would never do that to create a character for a game. If you do model it in pose, you'd probably be the only person to do so. Anyways, it would probably take longer to model in pose... Adding a few bones and making the pose assymetrical is a cakewalk. You can make a dirty rig and bind in under an hour easy.

For the beauty render, you can render it out using whatever lighting you want although I expect some people will opt for all viewport shading because they like it that way. Its up to you.

The flipping UVs issue isnt a problem in max.
  02 February 2007
ok, well the reason I ask about the pose is that I'm planning on having multiple layers of loose clothing around the shoulders. Possibly tunic, armour, cloak and pelt - possibly something a bit like this:

I'd also like to have one arm fairly raised in his "winning" pose and I really don't want to have to worry about the mess of shoulder deformations that would come from all that so I was hoping I could just model it in place from the start.

Interesting to hear we can render it, I'm guessing that excessive use of advanced lighting and shader techniques would be discouraged.

I guess I'll just have to work around the flipped normal thing in maya, hopefully I can get it to render correctly regardless.
  02 February 2007
If a concept artist doesn't count as team member does that mean we're allowed to have concept slaves? LOL
  02 February 2007
I was just wondering, who would be a good person to contact to clarify the modelling to a pose issue?
  02 February 2007
taehoon --> Like ill_logic said

aesir --> Yeah, it is a bit strange, but it's alright. I guess everyone likes humans...

MattBirkett-Smith --> You can ask me. Yes, I think it would be best to model your work in a neutral pose. Then when you are done, you can pose him. People don't usually spend alot of time on rigging. As long as all the fingers are in seperate envelope and as long as arms and legs don't effect the body, you are good to go. Since you are not making an animation, feel free to tweek vertex's after you position him (this will fix your bad rigging if you didn't do a good job). But, if you would like to model him in an action pose to begin with, good luck. Like aesir said, this would hurt your texture uvs.

Yes, please don't use too much effects and lighting in your winning pose shot. For your beauty render, anything goes.

coCoKNIght --> I hate to authorize this, but yes, slavery is permitted. Feel free to bind a concept artist now
- Fredrik Hultqvist (Facebook? add me)
- Game Artist
- 我汉语说的还不好
  02 February 2007
"All weapons and detachable gear use the weapon's allocation of polygons (1000 max)"

Does this include clothes/armor/adornments?
  02 February 2007
i don't think so, except you model his/her whole naked body under the armour...
  02 February 2007
weapons is anything used in combat (knives, guns grenades) anything else, armor, clothes falls under the character polylimit
  02 February 2007
This looks like a very promising community and contest. I’m taking part at it

Good luck to everyone.

wondering how to setup a thumbnail but guess I need to read further

- 武士道
  02 February 2007
Some doubts regarding the rules

Dear colleagues,

I read the brief for Dominance War II a few minutes ago and I have some doubts regarding the rules. I have worked on 3D models for games before and therefore, my interpretation of the rules is based on what I have done, read and learnt about this. Please correct me if I am wrong.

1. The polygon limitations say 6000 TRIs for characters and 1000 TRIs for weapons.
- When you say 6000 TRIs, do you mean that the model should have 3000 Quads only?
I know it seems like a silly question, but I had this doubt and I thought it would be better to get it clarified before I ended up skewering my work.

2. About the texture sheet of 2048X2048 pixels.
- I have textured some game models before and the basic rule there was that the model had exactly ONE texture sheet. In the texture SHEET, smaller maps would be included and used on the game model, and accessories, for different purposes.

So, by saying a texture sheet of 2048X2048 pixels, do the guidelines mean that we can use as many maps as we want so long as it fits in a sheet of 2048X2048 pixels?

I read the various interpretations of the rule here and I think the rules mean that you can use as many maps as you want so long as you end up with only ONE 2048X2048 texture sheet.

Kindly clarify my doubts and correct me where I am wrong. Best of luck to everyone and most importantly, have fun! Thanking you in advance,

With regards and best wishes,

Jaidev. K
  02 February 2007
1. No, it means 6000 tris, nothing more, nothing less. There can of course be n-gons in your model, but the tris count. So when you triangulate your mesh, it's gotta be 6000 or less tris.

2. Afaik you can devide the sheet into as many parts as you like. You don't want to do under 256 anyway. But like 4x 1024 would be okay i guess. Like 1 for the armor, one for the head, one for the legs and one for err.. the hat xD

I'd love to join this epic battle, but unfortunately I suck badly when it comes to Characters. And I wouldn't even dare to start with a 6000 tri next-gen (or current gen ) char.

Last edited by DooFi : 02 February 2007 at 04:29 PM.
  02 February 2007
For the texture sheet, you have 1 2048 sheet for each of the sheets I listed in the brief. So, one 2048 diffuse, 1x2048 bump, 1x2048 spec, 1x2048 normal etc.

Anyone who actually uses this to its maximum is seriously crazy! Personally, I think I will just use a 1024 sheet for a few of the listed sheets. I don't have time for anything bigger.

Good luck

[edit] In your final texture sheet that must be handed in, you have to squeeze in the two basic sheets (diffuse, and normal map[if used]) and as many of the others as you can. Feel free to do a pretty design. If you look at some of last year's dominancewar entries, they got creative on their final texture sheet's design.

- Fredrik Hultqvist (Facebook? add me)
- Game Artist
- 我汉语说的还不好

Last edited by FredH : 02 February 2007 at 08:18 PM.
  02 February 2007
Hey, good luck to everyone. I can't wait to see what everyone pulls out for this.
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