how to get a good daylight

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Old 08 August 2013   #1
Smile how to get a good daylight

I am using a daylight (mr sun + mr sky) for a platform I would like to render.
I prepared a nice sunset on the water for behind, the platform is on water.

My problem now is that the part of the platform I see is in its own shadow, the logos are a little too dark..

I tried with a fill light on the camera side (Area Omni with multiplier 6) + a GI with 50 000 photons.
But it almost does nothing unless increasing dramatically the render time..

Anybody with experience on outside renderings?
The max help says that outside we only need 1 daylight, how you guys would do in this situation?

thanks
 
Old 08 August 2013   #2
how about playing with the photographic exposure control?
 
Old 08 August 2013   #3
Yes, I tried there, I could modify the light with the camera settings like a normal camera.
It helped but what I would like to do is to fill up a little that dark shadow from the sun behind the object..
maybe with the environment settings chcking in the global lighting level..
 
Old 08 August 2013   #4
Can you upload an image showing the problem?
 
Old 09 September 2013   #5
I made a quick scene to illustrate the problem. [font='Calibri', 'sans-serif']I made 3 small size pics I try to put in this post but it looks I can only with a URL and these are on my pc, I don’t know how I can put them on the forum, I check in the FAQs in the support but didn’t find there..[/font]

I wanted to have the platform with a sun in the background because when the sun is behind, it gives nice reflections on the water.

The problem is that the logo then came into shadow, so I increased the sky multiplier but then I noticed that the sky is not a diffused light, it is like a spot on top that produces its own shadow.

Then I tried to play with the GI, there the render time increase a lot..

I increased the GI multiplier, or the average GI photons per light but nothing there really worked..

What I would like to find is a parameter which acts like a light overall, like during a cloud cast day when the light comes from everywhere to add global light to my whole scene but still keep the sun.

Any idea?
 
Old 09 September 2013   #6
if you can't upload images here, you can always use an online image hoster. I strongly suggest www.imgur.com - excellent reputation, free, no account needed, upload multiple images at once to form a gallery you can share with others.

anyways that's what the sky light in the daylight system is supposed to do - create soft ambient light, nothing that looks like a spotlight.

some of the following questions might only make sense if you're a max user, but I hope they translate ok to which ever software you are using:

are you sure final gather is on?
do you have the physical sky shader in the environment slot?
are you using photographic exposure control?
gamma settings?
is the scene in correct scale? (see here - it's not enough to just set this, you have to click the system units button on the top)

what I would do anyway, is to try to make a completely fresh scene, then make a 2x2x2 meter (or something) big box on a plane, then add the daylight system and hope that it looks like this, if not, something is up.
 
Old 09 September 2013   #7
There's a 'manage attachments' button where you can upload your images provided they're not too big. If you use Photoshop you can use 'save for web and web devices' dialogue if the file sizes are large.

Otherwise Photobucket is another option.
 
Old 09 September 2013   #8
Smile

thanks for the tips, I already can upload the pics from yesterday,
it shows what I meant with the sky light casting a shadow right under the platform, so it
loooks strange to have 2 shadows: 1 for the sun and 1 for ths sky..

I would have expect that the sky casts a very diffuse shadow, just like in a cloud casted day..

That's why I used then the GI but there I couldnt see any improvement (see my post from yesterday and pictures uploaded today:-)

I will try the tips that Catche wrote also..

How do u guys do a exterior scene usually with max? 1 daylight + 1 sky and no other fill lights or such things or?

thanks,
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Platform_sun1-sky1.jpg (16.2 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Platform_sun1-sky5.jpg (21.3 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg Platform_sun1-sky1_GIon5.jpg (15.4 KB, 7 views)
 
Old 09 September 2013   #9
Typically with a scene like this you'd have to choose whether you want to expose correctly for the foreground or background and not both.

With this camera/lighting setup I don't think the logo will ever grab the viewer attention effectively unless you increase the exposure and blow out the background, make the logo self illuminated, or at least increase the saturation substantially on the blue logo.

It can still look cool if you increase the exposure - as I'm assuming you're going for a realistic look?

But if you want to make the shadowed side brighter anyway then some options include:

- stick a big white card behind and to the left of the camera to bounce some light back.
- reduce the intensity of the sun and increase the exposure
- stick a light behind the camera and switch of spec and reflection
- you could render out a HDR and tonemap it. Photoshop is pretty crap for this, I have SNS HDR pro but I would try another option.

Hope that helps.

Last edited by MisterS : 09 September 2013 at 08:22 AM.
 
Old 09 September 2013   #10
Thumbs up

@Catche:
Hi,

First, thanks for the website where one can upload images, I will first upload them here but soon I will need more space and use the website you recommended.



are you sure final gather is on?
-> mmh… I tried again today (after a reset) and the scene is better, the final gather is on, maybe it was not yesterday.. good point




do you have the physical sky shader in the environment slot?
-> I think yes, this shader is the environment map called “mr physical sky” or?


are you using photographic exposure control?
-> I think I was but I was only using the shutter speed and film speed, I just saw the rest: the “image control” is exactly what I was looking for! Good stuff! Thanks for the tipp


gamma settings?
-> I put it on, it helps a little but I didn’t check in depth of these settings.

is the scene in correct scale? (see
here - it's not enough to just set this, you have to click the system units button on the top)
-> Yes, I think so, at least I have the same as you (meters, etc.)

what I would do anyway, is to try to make a completely fresh scene, then make a 2x2x2 meter (or something) big box on a plane, then add the daylight system and hope that it looks like
this, if not, something is up.
-> Yes, I did a simplified scene, takes less time to render ;-)

Thanks again for your usefull detailed tips
 
Old 09 September 2013   #11
I think what you are referring to as a second shadow is actually the reflection on the sea - is that what you mean?
 
Old 09 September 2013   #12
[font='Verdana', 'sans-serif']Thanks for your post, a lot made sense to me![/font]

[font='Verdana', 'sans-serif']I have tried each of your tips, I confess, I got some difficulties by few of them but finally I came to a good result and understanding of the thing.

[/font]
 
Old 09 September 2013   #13
Wink

Originally Posted by catche: I think what you are referring to as a second shadow is actually the reflection on the sea - is that what you mean?


[font='Verdana', 'sans-serif']Yes, on the picture “Platform_sun1-sky5.jpg”..you’re right, it is not a shadow it is a reflection, so it’s correct, or?

[/font]
 
Old 09 September 2013   #14
yes to me it looks correct, nothing terribly "wrong" at least.
 
Old 09 September 2013   #15
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