box 2 and fluid simulation

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Old 09 September 2009   #1
box 2 and fluid simulation

Hi all,
introducin particle's intercollision whit PhysX I suppose that PFlow is nearly to simulate its first steps in fluido dynamic ensuring mutual dynamic interactions with other movable objects (ice in a glass...) like Real Flow and better then Glu3d (can glu3d particles push geometry?!).

I'm not a particles guru so I wanted to ask if is this attached file (max 2010) a right approach to fluids in box 2?

Sorry for english an tnx in advance for reply.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Filled_glass.zip (47.5 KB, 57 views)

Last edited by savat : 09 September 2009 at 02:16 PM.
 
Old 09 September 2009   #2
no interest to this argument?...ok
 
Old 09 September 2009   #3
I'm really interested on this, but for now I don't have box#2, can you upload a video in youtube?
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Old 09 September 2009   #4
hmm sounds cool. Can you post video?... I can also think of another plugin if it can be used with box#2, sure it can make cool fluids. But I am not sure if I can speak of about that plugin yet. Maybe Bobo can speak more.
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Old 09 September 2009   #5
Originally Posted by savat: no interest to this argument?...ok


I think more interest will generate with the release of the highly anticipated (at least by me) release of PhysX 3.0 SDK which is supposed to have 64-bit support.

Right now the current particle limit to PhysX is around 65K particles (or Actors), which in comparison to any serious fluid simulator is but a drop in the bucket so to speak. Rumor has it with the implementation of 64-bit that cap will be raised (although I doubt removed) to hopefully more usable particle counts in relation to fluids.

AFAIK Box#2 has not yet implemented an SPH solver. PhysX does have one so maybe in a future release

I have done a few Box#2 fluid like tests, results are certainly fine for a small scale quick shot IMO. The problem lies within the particle skinning. The particle wrapper has no way of determining collisions so you get mesh penetration on your collision objects.
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Last edited by JohnnyRandom : 09 September 2009 at 07:14 PM.
 
Old 09 September 2009   #6
As this was already posted by Bobo in Krakatoa thread. I think I can post it here too.

Here is the link for Krakatoa KSW feature. But that's not what I am talking. Look at the bottom of the page for PRT mesher.

That's something new cool thing. (Another option after blobmesh and pwrapper)
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Old 09 September 2009   #7
^Yeah, the prt mesher is great... too bad it's not commercially available.


On topic, and I've also said this before -- the Ageia fluids suck.... great for games, sure, but not for real fluids work. ... but at least it's better than nothing I guess! Also, using spheres as fluids also only goes so far, but you can fake quite a bit with it... maybe for stuff pouring in a cup or something.
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Old 09 September 2009   #8
What about making such stuff like flooding street using box#2 tools? (Imaging the shot flood shot like from film "Poseidon" - tunnel flooding shot..)

Box#2 uses agia physx fluid stuff? Is it implemented in it?
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Old 09 September 2009   #9
Originally Posted by JohnnyRandom: Right now the current particle limit to PhysX is around 65K particles (or Actors), which in comparison to any serious fluid simulator is but a drop in the bucket so to speak.


sure, muthc more then 1 or 2 limitations but for small watery scenes its abilities are a new tool for a max user (better then glu3d in dynamic interactions) and cooperanting, again, also whit glu3d-PFlow operators we have other potentials...an evolving stuff vs a money expensive stuff like Real Flow.

Originally Posted by JohnnyRandom: I have done a few Box#2 fluid like tests, results are certainly fine for a small scale quick shot IMO. The problem lies within the particle skinning. The particle wrapper has no way of determining collisions so you get mesh penetration on your collision objects.


in my tests I use for radius "collision shape size" and blob radius the same size and don't have mesh penetration.

Comparing a filling glass test using box#2 (A) and glu3d (B) I've noticed that the particle flow in A is too turbolent that in B cause upper particles crush bottom particles...if I resolve that then I'll post somewhat
 
Old 09 September 2009   #10
Originally Posted by jigu: What about making such stuff like flooding street using box#2 tools? (Imaging the shot flood shot like from film "Poseidon" - tunnel flooding shot..)

Box#2 uses agia physx fluid stuff? Is it implemented in it?


Box2 does not have any fluids built in. I'm sure the physx fluids will be in the future however. There's no reason you can't use a crapload of spheres to fake a fluid, but like johnny was pointing out, you're going to be limited by your particle count (65K)... which is not a lot of particles for fluids. But hey, if it's enough for your shot, and it looks right, then by all means use it. ...just a though.. maybe adding a negative keep apart would help create some surface tension
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Old 09 September 2009   #11
Originally Posted by savat: sure, muthc more then 1 or 2 limitations but for small watery scenes its abilities are a new tool for a max user (better then glu3d in dynamic interactions) and cooperanting, again, also whit glu3d-PFlow operators we have other potentials...an evolving stuff vs a money expensive stuff like Real Flow.



in my tests I use for radius "collision shape size" and blob radius the same size and don't have mesh penetration.

Comparing a filling glass test using box#2 (A) and glu3d (B) I've noticed that the particle flow in A is too turbolent that in B cause upper particles crush bottom particles...if I resolve that then I'll post somewhat


Sure filling a round smooth glass, if that is what you need it for, if there are any concave or convex cornered objects within the fluid you'll get mesh interpenetration and it looks wrong. Try filling a box, unless your particles are minute in size, the corners do not fill properly, then you just lost the speed benefit because you have had to raise you particles counts through the ceiling. Anytime the particles get split by a collision object the mesh doesn't know any better.

As Solitude said if it works for you use it
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Old 09 September 2009   #12
OH it works....



20001 particles + box2 glue tweaked to all hell + 40min Cache to PRT + prt mesher = chocolate yummyness....

Box2 is cool!

Enjoy,
Mark



 
Old 09 September 2009   #13
Hey Mark, YOU SUCK! Haha... I just got back from drinking with you...and you suck.. or is that the alcohol talking? I dunno... I mean that's awesome. Nice to see that somebody make some decent looking fluids out of this. I wonder if you can show my realflow version...? Yours is better... in fact you should show it with the "kind of not chocolate" shader.
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Old 09 September 2009   #14
Really cool test. PRT mesher + Box #2 nice combo.

As I see it's chocolate and supposed to be thick fluid, I just wonder is it possible to make watery type of fluid with PRT mesher + Box #2? Something like carwheel splash? or For that, it might require more particles? and then it might be possible to make more particles by Partitioning in Krakatoa?
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Old 09 September 2009   #15
Look who crawled out of the woodwork

[Heckle mode ON]
WTF Mark a still image? what are your a photog? where's the playblast?
[Heckle mode OFF]

Nice one, so what exactly did you cache to PRT, just positions? Did you just bring it back in to PFlow wit the PRT birth and updater?
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