how to put the fine detail in your hard surface mesh

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Old 10 October 2006   #1
how to put the fine detail in your hard surface mesh

i really don't understand how those hardcore modeling put their detail in their complex mesh ..at first i thought they use split and extrude polygon to doing that but when i come back and start to do it ..it's nightmare ..i got a bunch of edges run along surface and after apply blin shader to chceck the reflection ..it's really bad looking mesh

then i try bolean this is even worse ...

so i think the solution for this is just creat and sit and place it ten combine it later ,,, but i really fell like there is something wrong when render it out ...

so anyone ,,suggestion or good tutorial please ...
 
Old 10 October 2006   #2
well... it's a matter of cutting polys and merging, moving vertices and extruding, beveling etc. Avoid triangles and pentagons.

That's all you need to know, the rest is just practice, tears and blood (literally)
I'm joking, it's really just practice.
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Old 10 October 2006   #3
thanks for reply mate ....

yes that's a real answer for that question .. but still wnat to know more on that .. for example how do we crete the nice edge to reflect the light beautifully ..i've tried bevel(maya) it work but not so well and have a problem with edge that i made from boolean
 
Old 10 October 2006   #4
Originally Posted by Sarotekung: thanks for reply mate ....

yes that's a real answer for that question .. but still wnat to know more on that .. for example how do we crete the nice edge to reflect the light beautifully ..i've tried bevel(maya) it work but not so well and have a problem with edge that i made from boolean


Hi!
well, first of all I would avoid booleans, they seem to be good and easy but thay make things more complictaed, in my opinion.
For the reflection, consider this:
bevel is all right, but no real surface in the world is perfectly flat. Add some subdivisions and pull and push some vertices slightly, very delicatly, so to obtain an uneven surface, that will make the light affect the surface in a realistic way and you will obtain the effect you are looking for.

Also, bevel with some subdivision (that is like saying bevel mor ethan once) and apply a smooth operator on top.
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Old 10 October 2006   #5
Thumbs up

It just takes time by extruding and pushing and pulling points. Keep in mind that you want to do your best to keep quads. Practice makes perfect.
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Old 11 November 2006   #6
you don't really have to stick to the "don't make tris" rule. If you are smoothing in the end, it's generally a good idea, unless you really know what you're doing. Genereally tris are fine, infact, everything gets turned into tris at render time anyways. Teachers need to quit teaching this as a steadfast, end all rule, because much of the time it is not true.l
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Old 11 November 2006   #7
Originally Posted by itsallgoode9: you don't really have to stick to the "don't make tris" rule. If you are smoothing in the end, it's generally a good idea, unless you really know what you're doing. Genereally tris are fine, infact, everything gets turned into tris at render time anyways. Teachers need to quit teaching this as a steadfast, end all rule, because much of the time it is not true.l


I'll add to this by saying that quads increase the chance of creating non-planar polygons which will hurt you in the end when you render. Not everything needs to be modelled in quads, and modelling in quad is only usefull when your intention is to subd the model.
 
Old 11 November 2006   #8
I have the same problem with adding details to a hard body surface. I've been trying to study wireframes of models to see what others have done. It would be easier to actually view the models in a 3d program but I don't think most modelers want to just give there models away for free lol. Ive been looking at vitaly bulgarovs models to see how he adds his details but sometimes I look at how he adds detail and to me it seems impossible. edges that don't have support and just float on the model it seems. I have an example of this. If anyone has an explanation that would be awesome.



The very bottom circle has no edges on him..it is a small picture and its hard to see but I see no edges.
 
Old 11 November 2006   #9
Originally Posted by twindragon: ....edges that don't have support and just float on the model it seems. I have an example of this. If anyone has an explanation that would be awesome.



floating geometry
looks like the shaded view is normal mapped,what you see in the wireframe is the high res mesh the normal map is extracted from,
the indentations would be made using floating geometry(they would 'float' just above the surface of the rest of the model),this calculates just fine for the normal map.

http://www.iddevnet.com/quake4/ArtR..._CreatingModels
 
Old 11 November 2006   #10
Here is the full image....so if the geometry was floating on top of another object how do you make it appear to be recessed within that object or is that only done with normal maps?

Also check out more of his stuff and his wire frames you can see he's added the detail right into the object for alot of his models. What if you weren't going to be creating a normal map would you just add more geometry sp that you can work with more detail? bulgarov.com


Last edited by twindragon : 11 November 2006 at 09:24 AM.
 
Old 11 November 2006   #11
When you do floating geometry, all you have to worry about is the way your cage envelopes them. Since you use your lowpoly as the basis for the cage it should correctly interpret the floating things Simple example would be if you have a flat plane and then place some floating geometry above it, then move the projection cage above your floating geometry. When you render out your normal map, it should be as if the geometry was modeled.
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Old 11 November 2006   #12
If you want the indented details to blend in more with the rest of the normal map would you just blur the edges in photoshop? I did a test in xsi and it worked fairly nicely but it seemed like the indents had almost too hard of an edge.
 
Old 11 November 2006   #13
Yeah, you can blur the edges in photoshop if needed. Just remember to run the Nvidia filter set to Normalize after you're done to make sure you won't get any strange artifacts. It's also a good idea to do it after resizing a normalmap as I've noticed on a project I worked on since edges where the mirrored halves met displayed quite weird once checked in-game >_<
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Old 11 November 2006   #14
I did a test where I beveled the edges of the floating indented detail around its perimeter and it worked out nicely..I did the test on a flat plane and then on a sphere to see if it still worked and it worked nicely with that too.

urgaffel - thanks for the info about the normalize in photoshop it will help.
 
Old 12 December 2006   #15
Great thread, addressed some similar questions I had. Does anyone know of a similar tutorial for creating normal maps in Maya with floating geo? I've been searching and coming up with bupkis

DC
 
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