Makehuman, quidam... cheating?

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  09 September 2007
Makehuman, quidam... cheating?

Hello
I am new to modeling characters, and I wonder if you regard using Makehuman or Quidam cheating like using Poser characters? I'm asking because I am considering to use these software to make the base meshes for my characters, which I will sculpt and texture using ZBrush.
 
  09 September 2007
Those programs are also like Poser, so they would be cheating, as you say.
 
  09 September 2007
Although I could agree with you that using those programs would be to cheat, I can't say I agree that Quidam is like Poser; In Quidam you start off with a figure that you edit to make it look somewhat like what you intend your final character to look like. Poser barely allows you to edit your models (it's mostly, as the name implies, a software for posing your models). Makehumans features are somewhere in between these two softwares (you can't tweak your model as much as you can with Quidam, but it let's you knead them more than in Poser).
 
  09 September 2007
It's only cheating if you lie about it.
Be up front with the choices you make. Someone will always be able to tell, even if you try to hide it and that will make you look very, very bad.
If you use Make Human, Poser or whatever, just be sure to mention it.
I don't think it's cheating, but you also won't learn as much as if you started from scratch.
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  10 October 2007
Hiya

I don't understand why some people think' it's "cheating". The way I see it, taking a program that lets you get a basic human mesh down, and then 'sculpting' it in ZBrush, Mudbox, or whatever is, as far as I'm concerned, pretty much the same thing as taking a cylindar and tweaking it's size/taper a bit then brining it into ZBrush, Mudbox or whatever in order to create a vase. How is that "cheating"?

Since when did using another program to produce a base 'something' become "cheating"? Cheating at what, exactly?

Now, when someone posts a pic of an awesome character and says "I made this"...and we find out that the character is a 'poser character' you can buy for $30, questions get asked. And, I think this was what one of the previous posters was getting at, as long as the person lists "My latest work using XSI and a Poser character", things are fine. It's when the person posting the pic sounds like he's "hiding the truth" it gets all antagonistic.

So, IMHO, is using Makehuman or Poser to get a 'base mesh' that you then sculpt the hell out of in another program cheating? Nope. Not any more than using some other primitive other than a poser mesh is.
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  10 October 2007
Originally Posted by pming: Hiya

I don't understand why some people think' it's "cheating". The way I see it, taking a program that lets you get a basic human mesh down, and then 'sculpting' it in ZBrush, Mudbox, or whatever is, as far as I'm concerned, pretty much the same thing as taking a cylindar and tweaking it's size/taper a bit then brining it into ZBrush, Mudbox or whatever in order to create a vase. How is that "cheating"?

Since when did using another program to produce a base 'something' become "cheating"? Cheating at what, exactly?
indeed, as i recall XSI has a human(male & female) base 'primitive' and from zbrush's homepage you can download a base sculpting mesh, and in ZB3 when you first launch it, it gives you the option to greate a base male mesh to sculp, no?

its like saying that automated base animations are all wrong, though if you have a tight deadline, it can actually be such a time saver to use the automated system to create the base animations and then tweak them to get the finished out-come..
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  10 October 2007
How much cheating do you figure is going on here?

http://www.cgarena.com/freestuff/tu...otb/master.html
 
  10 October 2007
Originally Posted by RockstarKate: Be up front with the choices you make. Someone will always be able to tell....


yeah right...
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  10 October 2007
What, you don't think people can tell? And how would you know that, hmmm?

I've seen it many times where someone gets called out for claiming to have made something from scratch that was a poser model. I've even seen people get kicked out of school for using turbosquid models without mentioning their origin.
Maybe lay-people won't know, but definitely don't post work that isn't your own on a forum like this where there are so many people with good visual memories.
If you are trying to pass off work someone else did as your own, you are stealing. If you get caught you will ruin your reputation for good.
And whether you get caught or not, it's still a sh*tty thing to do for all involved.
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rockstarkate.com
 
  10 October 2007
Originally Posted by cthurston: How much cheating do you figure is going on here?

http://www.cgarena.com/freestuff/tu...otb/master.html


None at all.
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rockstarkate.com
 
  10 October 2007
Originally Posted by RockstarKate: And whether you get caught or not, it's still a sh*tty thing to do for all involved.
mmh-mh.. actually stealing is bad and disrespectfull.
one thing is to use (for an example) MH mesh as a base for sculpting, then retopo it and bake a normal/displacement map from the mh sculpt to the retopoed mesh, the other thing is to take someones free model from TurboSquid make some changes and say its all yours..
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  01 January 2008
Well if you give credit where credit is due, then I wouldn't say you're cheating by starting out with a premade base mesh. And sometimes it's neccessary, as someone pointed out earlier, when you have professional deadlines to meet.

But as far as improving your skills as an artist is concerned, I don't think premade ANYTHING is helpful. I mean sure, you start with a premade mesh and sculpt it. Makes you a better sculptor but does nothing for your understanding of meshflow and poly efficiency.

It's like those paint-by-numbers pictures. Anyone can do them because they do more than hold your hand. The numbers dictate what colour to paint in the shapes. Sure YOU'RE doing the actual painting but the painter doesn't need to think artisically. Art is in the head as well as in the hands (or whatever limb one uses to produce it).

So yeah in my opinion, any character/creature artist who begins with a premade mesh, I would say they're digital sculptors. Not digital modelers cause, well, cause the model is provided!
 
  01 January 2008
what about the learning?

I think the only important point is what you are going to learn. if you start with a ready amde mesh you won't learn how to model the character, how to provide it with the right volumes, proportions and where to put the right subdivisions. I would definetely model from scratch, what you would learn doing so is invaluable.
Hope this helps
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Last edited by newellteapot : 01 January 2008 at 12:43 PM. Reason: grammar
 
  01 January 2008
Its only really cheating if you hide it, be open about your work and if it looks good noone can comment
 
  01 January 2008
I don't see it as cheating if you admit you're using pre-made meshes... even experienced modelers do it [to save time]. Obviously it all depends on what your goals are... if you only want to make illustrations using 3d then I see no problem [it will just be another tool in your arsenal] but obviously if your goal is to make a 3d demo reel then it wouldn't work since making a base mesh is the basis of the job...
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