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Old 12-12-2005, 07:40 PM   #31
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Margie,

Great to see the process! The more WIP, the better!

Cheers,

~Rebeccak
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Old 12-13-2005, 07:19 PM   #32
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I don't know what I was doing yesterday, but when I came back to the sketch today, it seemed all wrong to me.
It's difficult for me to get even the tilt and size of the head right on such a small scale and I often have this problem that the figure itself is OK, but the size of the head and the tilt is wrong.

So I started again, this time with a close crop of the head only. This looks better, but it's also 600 x 800 original size. Add the figure to that and I end up with something ridiculously large and that makes the program hopelessly sluggish. Arrrgghhh... anyone any ideas how to solve this?



 
Old 12-13-2005, 07:41 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Margie: This looks better, but it's also 600 x 800 original size. Add the figure to that and I end up with something ridiculously large and that makes the program hopelessly sluggish. Arrrgghhh... anyone any ideas how to solve this?

Margie, it depends on how much RAM you have and what program you are using ~ I'm sorry, are you using Painter? Unfortunately, Painter really chugs on large image files unless you have enough RAM. Spirit Dreamer has more experience with Painter than I, you might want to PM him, or pose the same question on the OFDW 008 and / or 009, where he's most likely to see it. I think PM'ing might be the route to go, though.

Also, you may want to work at a small resolution initially, and then blow the image up, and refine from there. Frequently digital artists work at 25% zoomed out size anyway, the better to see the picture as a whole. I guess start small, scale up, then work in sections if it's not possible to add RAM?

EDIT: By the way, you're doing a fantastic job with the Beginner's Workshop!

Cheers,

~Rebeccak
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Last edited by Rebeccak : 12-13-2005 at 08:06 PM.
 
Old 12-13-2005, 08:21 PM   #34
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Rebecca I use Paintshop Pro, but I reckon it's hogging memory just as much as Painter. Adding more RAM makes perfect sense. I have 512 Mb (don't laugh, guys, don't laugh) , but when I see the file size, that's not nearly enough.

Upgrading is no problem, I can go to 2 Gb.

Thanks for the help!

Last edited by Margie : 12-13-2005 at 08:25 PM.
 
Old 12-14-2005, 12:09 AM   #35
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Margie,

Sounds good! No prob.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:16 PM   #36
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Plugged in another 512 Mb this morning. Major difference! Did a quick oil sketch of another
great pose from Ben Miller (from D.A.) original size 1200 x 1600 with no noticable delay.

 
Old 12-16-2005, 05:32 PM   #37
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Great to see that you made use of that image, Margie! Thanks!!
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Old 12-16-2005, 07:26 PM   #38
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It's me who owes YOU thanks! It's not easy to find great models. I intended to drop you a note about posting this sketch, but then.... (life got in the way and all the sorry excuses ).
 
Old 12-19-2005, 03:07 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margie
It's me who owes YOU thanks! It's not easy to find great models. I intended to drop you a note about posting this sketch, but then.... (life got in the way and all the sorry excuses ).
No worries. I was tickled to happen in and find it here. Being useful and helpful is certainly my goal as a model.
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:26 AM   #40
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Last edited by Rebeccak : 12-20-2005 at 01:39 AM.
 
Old 12-19-2005, 03:58 AM   #41
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Last edited by Rebeccak : 12-20-2005 at 01:40 AM.
 
Old 12-19-2005, 01:30 PM   #42
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Rebecca, thanks for the helpful examples! You're absolutely right about value being more important than color (hue). I've seen your explanation some time ago and started working accordingly, as you can see in the examples before I started with the Waterhouse drawings and this painting.

However, there is a slight problem with this approach if the goal is to produce a painting that has a (neo)classical look, like - say - Carravaggio, Frans Hals or Waterhouse for that matter. I've tried to produce such digital paintings with a black/midgrey/white grisaille and failed. It looks too metallic, too digital. So I turned to the traditional oil painters for advice.

I know for a fact that Hals (and Rubens!) did his underpaintings in the way Caravaggio did, with a slight difference: for the ground he used a mix of ivory black- which is not quite black but very dark brown/lead (flake) white, which is not true white but a very pale cream and a spot of burnt sienna, giving the mix a pinkish tone which is so often found in Baroque underpaintings. The grisaille was then painted with midrange greys, never going beyond midgrey. The reason is simple if you have ever painted in oil: coloured glazings darken the painting, not to mention that a single glazing over a very dark grey has no effect whatsoever.


Caravaggio painted with only three or four pigments over such a low keyed grisaille! Yet his painting have an extraordinairy brilliance and livelyness.
Here is a beautiful workshop (oil) exploring this way of painting, hosted by an oilpainter with a mileage of 20,30 years or so.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306458

Recently oil painters have begun to explore the digital oil paints and while there is still a lot of discussing and experimenting, it appears that digital "oilpaint" behaves indeed in a somewhat similar way to real oilpaint, but not quite. (They're still looking for the turpentine and linseed, lol!, but hey! it dries a LOT faster)

The smooth blending you did is unsuited for an digital imitation of a traditional oilpainting. Even with carefull blending, there is still a lot of variety in the shades of grey in an oilpainting. One of the reasons why I think digital paintings often look slightly metallic and/or hyperrealistic, is because of this smooth blending. It doesn't exsist in traditional art. So I'd like to try it the way as described in the workshop above blendng with brush strokes only, and mixing the paint in the process. This is just as tedious and time consuming as in real oil (for real fun an a guaranteed headache: try copying a Van Gogh or Seurat).

This is not to say that your method is wrong. It isn't, but it's not the right one for what I'm trying to achieve (a painting in the Waterhouse style, who probably also used the Caravaggio method, certainly in his early work).

As for the color: yes, you're right, I should stick to greyscale for the moment, but have a heart. We're in the dark, grey, rainy days before Christmas and I am afraid if I don't do a little colour now and then, I'll go berserk and spam the entire board with bright Chrismassy thingies.
 
Old 12-19-2005, 04:37 PM   #43
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Last edited by Rebeccak : 12-20-2005 at 01:40 AM.
 
Old 12-20-2005, 12:27 PM   #44
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Hi
Margie...
Just stopped by to say how much I like the mermaid painting your working on.
You really captured a nice feeling there... BEAUTIFUL FACE...The whole figure really.
Cant't wait to see how you paint it... keep this version, whatever way you go, it's
really nice the way it is.
Like the way your trying to do the same techniques in painting, that Caravaggio and
a few of the other Masters used, i've been trying the same techniques and aproach
myself.
Will be great if it can be pulled off useing this new medium of our age...digital....
Anyway just wanted to say I am really enjoying your thread here, some really nice
things happening in it.
If I can be of any help in your efforts at recreating OLD MASTER painting techniques
digitally, let me know, and vice versa...I think we're all in the same boat here, trying
to create masterpieces, with tried and proven techniques from the past, while useing
this new digital medium that's been thrust upon us...
Oh, and excuse my spelling here, you know howI am with words Builderberge...LOL..

Take Care
Glenn
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Old 12-20-2005, 12:27 PM   #45
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