Frosted Glass Challenge (Any Render Engine)

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Old 07 July 2010   #31
Thanks, Marcellus.

Luxrender is still running -- now over 25 hrs, and still too much noise.
To make things worse, just when I thought "well, a few more minutes, then it should be okay", suddenly there appeared a lot of new noise.
Could be either a bug in the current version 0.7, or I'm doing something fundamentally wrong
(by using the "interior" preset...). *sigh*

Edit:
Here's the current noisy image:


Off to a restart with slightly modified settings...

Last edited by wiz4rd : 07 July 2010 at 06:46 PM.
 
Old 07 July 2010   #32
Originally Posted by CHRiTTeR: I can see now why you guys started this challenge... fryrender seems to have real trouble rendering this frosted glass. Or i must be doing something really wrong (its probably that)
I'm sorry to hear but why don't you post it?
Originally Posted by wiz4rd: Out of curiosity, how long did it take for the other renders to complete? More specific, how long until the Indigo or Maxwell renders where noisefree?
It was 3h 42m for SL21 for Benchmark around 380.
Originally Posted by wiz4rd: Could be either a bug in the current version 0.7, or I'm doing something fundamentally wrong
Thanks for the input anyway. It seems working but clearly buggy.

Notes:
Indigo Renderer image updated.
LuxRender image added.
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Last edited by tomNL : 07 July 2010 at 07:38 PM.
 
Old 07 July 2010   #33
Originally Posted by tomNL: Thanks for the input anyway. It seems working but clearly buggy.

Obviously... A few hours earlier it looked so much better.
I'm waiting for another render right now. This time I'm using a biased approach -- one of Lux's animation presets at the highest quality.
What I can tell already: it will be faster, less accurate, and still a bit noisy
 
Old 07 July 2010   #34
Originally Posted by tomNL: I'm sorry to hear but why don't you post it?


Still cooking


but heres a cropped screencap current progress @ approx. 540 passes



Maybe its me who is doing something wrong but the weird thing is that with perfect specular (roughness 0) the glass looks clear. Wen using a roughness setting of 60 (like with this dragon scene) i get this ugly darkening.
 
Old 07 July 2010   #35
Thank you! Please, render it more and let's place on the table. I don't think you're doing something wrong because frosted glass setup isn't really hard or special. In the end, the challenge is open and someone else is free to post something better if there are any.
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Old 07 July 2010   #36
@ CHRiTTeR: could it be possible, that this darkish look comes from a black environment which your frosted glass is reflecting?
 
Old 07 July 2010   #37
That was one of the possibilities i was considdering... but its quite unlikely...

Several observations seem t suggest the problem lies in the material (maybe i misunderstood some setting or fryrender isnt verry efficient at doing verry frosted glass):

1. The enviroment is not set to black, but grey (70% if i remember correctly).

I made sure the fryrender lighting looks fairly close to the maxwell lighting



Reflections also looked close (seems like i forgot to save the images from that test though so cant show it now, sorry).


2. The darkening happens also in the fryrender material editor when you use higher roughness and render in same enviroment.

All 3 versions were rendered until quality 50, only difference between these 5 renders is the roughness value.
First one has roughness 0
Second one has roughness 30
Third one has roughness 60
Fourth one has roughness 80
Fifth one has roughness of 100




Ok, it seems that at 100 roughness i get the same result as with a lambert shader (without transparancy).
Somehow the higher roughness you use the more a lambert shader gets mixed in.
Same thing happens with the frosted glass material that comes with fryrender, so its not my fault either.
... I dont think this is supposed to happen or can be considdered correct? Must be a bug, right?

Sorry if i cant post higher sampled images, but im doing all this on my laptop while doing some other work, so its all going a bit slow

Last edited by CHRiTTeR : 07 July 2010 at 01:09 AM.
 
Old 07 July 2010   #38
Originally Posted by CHRiTTeR: That was one of the possibilities i was considdering... but its quite unlikely...

Several observations seem t suggest the problem lies in the material (maybe i misunderstood some setting or fryrender isnt verry efficient at doing verry frosted glass):

1. The enviroment is not set to black, but grey (70% if i remember correctly).

I made sure the fryrender lighting looks fairly close to the maxwell lighting



Reflections also looked close (seems like i forgot to save the images from that test though so cant show it now, sorry).


2. The darkening happens also in the fryrender material editor when you use higher roughness and render in same enviroment.

All 3 versions were rendered until quality 50, only difference between these 5 renders is the roughness value.
First one has roughness 0
Second one has roughness 30
Third one has roughness 60
Fourth one has roughness 80
Fifth one has roughness of 100




Ok, it seems that at 100 roughness i get the same result as with a lambert shader (without transparancy).
Somehow the higher roughness you use the more a lambert shader gets mixed in.
Same thing happens with the frosted glass material that comes with fryrender, so its not my fault either.
... I dont think this is supposed to happen or can be considdered correct? Must be a bug, right?

Sorry if i cant post higher sampled images, but im doing all this on my laptop while doing some other work, so its all going a bit slow


If you have problems with fryrender frosted glass, you are more than welcome to ask about it in the customer support section. I don't see a watermark, so I guess you are a licensed user.

Your Refl0 color is black or near black. The higher the roughness, the more prevalent the Refl0 color becomes. At 100% roughness a dielectric is nearly like a lambertian in appearance, but there is no "blending" of BRDFs going on and this isn't a bug.
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Old 07 July 2010   #39
Originally Posted by CHRiTTeR: Must be a bug, right?
I doesn't look like a bug. I think it's the best fryrender can do.
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Old 07 July 2010   #40
Originally Posted by tomNL: I doesn't look like a bug. I think it's the best fryrender can do.


Perhaps his "version" is broken?
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Old 07 July 2010   #41
Probably. What settings would you suggest Frances? Maybe he can give the demo version a whirl to make sure his version is broken or not...
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Old 07 July 2010   #42
I already suggested that the issue was the color of Refl0.

I understand your motives tom. I understand that they are not nice ones.
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Old 07 July 2010   #43
Originally Posted by Frances: Your Refl0 color is black or near black. The higher the roughness, the more prevalent the Refl0 color becomes.
You're right, I've completely missed this part. So, what should he do to Refl0?
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Old 07 July 2010   #44
Originally Posted by tomNL: You're right, I've compeltely missed this part. So, what should he do to Refl0?


What did you do to yours?
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Old 07 July 2010   #45
Originally Posted by Frances: What did you do to yours?
If you mean my Maxwell Material setup, Ref0 is a dark grey. Making it black still works though...
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