Gnomon School of Visual Effects Unveils Gnomon Studios

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  07 July 2010
Originally Posted by carloscidrais: students need to pay their dues to get into the industry

I've never understood this "pay your dues" thing, myself.

  07 July 2010
Well, I may have misunderstood the concept myself ( as english is not my first language ) but what I meant by paying my dues is putting in the hard work and long hours needed to get your work up to par with industry standards - not working for free ( or worse, paying to work ) on someone else's projects. Hope that made my point clearer.
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  07 July 2010
I was on the brink to response to this quote too, which Leigh has responded.
I am glad to read now that you didn't mean what I was thinking.
You are absolutelly right, study means hard work.

But again, if the stuff you produce is good enough to be on sale, you shouldn't give it away for free and if someone else makes good money with it, it would be your good right to receive dues.

Working for free on profit oriented projects doesn't only damages you and cheapens the entire field, it also demolishes jobs.

Originally Posted by carloscidrais: Well, I may have misunderstood the concept myself ( as english is not my first language ) but what I meant by paying my dues is putting in the hard work and long hours needed to get your work up to par with industry standards - not working for free ( or worse, paying to work ) on someone else's projects. Hope that made my point clearer.

  07 July 2010
Originally Posted by meleseDESIGN: it also demolishes jobs.

That is my main complaint about this whole business. Of course everyone wants to get ahead by gaining experience and if it was only about people paying to work on a show then I'd have no problems with that. My issue with this is that someone ELSE who would like to get paid does not get the job, pure and simple.

Of course a student won't get the same kind of work done as a more experienced artist but in the lower rungs the playing field is pretty even. What do you do when you've finished that free gig but you suddenly see yourself outbid by that next year student who works for free? Take another free job to get ahead again?

  07 July 2010
Originally Posted by MikeRhone: I'm not here to stir this bees nest, but when I read things like this it makes me cringe. Industry hopefuls that value themselves this way is the reason some studios can operate without giving compensation to thier artists. I'm not going to mention it by name, but there is a big name studio in Vancouver that does not pay people for working on weekends. I don't mean not paying OT, I mean you go in on a Saturday, put in your 10 hours, and walk out without a paycheck. Maybe Sunday too. This is why IATSE has thier eye on VFX houses. I have been privvy to some scary discussions on that front. I won't touch that here. but rest assured my jaw was on the floor when I heard how some studios operate

But there is a difference between the studio you mention and this particular situation.
See if you were one of the employees of the studio in question and refused to go in on the weekend, chances are you'd get fired.
But the guys that worked on the Gnomon projects did it because they wanted to... It was not required for graduation and they could have simply taken a different elective and been done with their classes. They chose to give up some of their time for the chance to work on major projects.
I guess the issue here is the assumption that Gnomon Studios profited from work done by some of their students that pay a pretty dime to go to school there, but the problem with that assumption is that nowhere on this thread have we seen any details as to how much Gnomon Studios/Alex did actually make for said work... And I would not expect them to divulge that kind of information either.

I guess my question was more in the way of doing a sacrifice/reward comparison. I don't work in the CGI field, but rest assured that in my field (Finance ~ God I can't wait to get out of this and go to school for CG) I've been asked more than once to Take one for the team with full understanding that there may not be any reward in the end.

Originally Posted by leigh: I wouldn't. Sure, I am not a student, so perhaps I am not the demographic you're posing the question to - however, I am answering because AVTPro said in an earlier post that even after he'd entered the professional field, he did a six month unpaid internship. That's not, as he claims, "business smart", that's just allowing yourself to be exploited, and sending out the message that you don't even value your own abilities as an experienced professional. Furthermore, it not only damages you, it also cheapens the entire field, because if you do it, then studios expect more people to be suckers too.

I agree 100% with you on this one Leigh... I guess my question could have been better worded and addressed towards soon-to-graduate students looking to enter the workforce.
I really don't think any of the guys that worked on those projects felt abused in any way at the time they were doing them and it seems that the sacrifice to reward ratio in their case was well worth their time and effort.

Originally Posted by salmonmoose:
Sure, you may have worked at Google or Facebook, but if all you did was make coffee does it really matter?

LOL... But wouldn't it have been nice to have been the coffe-lady/guy at Google from day one? I'm sure that person hasn't had to work in a while now.

Last edited by xXSebaSXx : 07 July 2010 at 03:56 PM.
  07 July 2010
If you work on a commercial project you should be paid.

All the rest is Yadda Yadda.
  07 July 2010
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