Realistic Fur Pipeline

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Old 04 April 2009   #46
I see. Well, I'm using 8 bit on the framebuffer.

And I think that I got a clue now. Since you told me sometimes it happens when you have problems with your shadow map locations. I work in network, and it is a very crappy network indeed, with some troubles sometimes. it might be that. I will try rendering the same but local when I get to the office.

The other weird thing, apart of rebooting the system or maya, is that I attached another fur system and it worked.
 
Old 04 April 2009   #47
Originally Posted by Yeminius: Well, I'm not sure if I understood what earlyworm said about Kong's fur styling, but as far as I understand he kind of converted the shave styled hair into maya fur, is that right?


Not quite. This was back when Shave was a separate program from Maya. We were able to export Shave guide curves as nurbs curves and connect those nurbs curves up to our own fur generation tools via Maya. We never used Maya Fur at all, but we did use some aspects of Maya Hair to do some of the dynamics workload as we could use the dynamic nurbs curves created by Maya as inputs for our wire deformers.

I didn't really touch on the dynamics side of it in my previous post, but there is this interview with Andrea which mentions the use of Syflex to do secondary dynamics on the fur...

http://www.syflex.biz/gallery_weta2.html
 
Old 05 May 2009   #48
Originally Posted by noizFACTORY: We use Shave and A Haircut and besides its dynamics, I find it great for production. In the newer version there's even the support for attaching maya hair systems for dynamics. I guess its better than using its own system.


Oh, that sounds nice! I have been working with shave and a haircut a lot for about one year, and now i am going to dig a bit deeper into the dynamics. Shave dynamics does not feel powerfull enough, i miss some things from maya hair. How can i use maya hair dynamics to controll the shave hair?? It would be very helpful if you just can point me to where i can read/find more info about this.

Regards
Erik

btw, good thread!
 
Old 05 May 2009   #49
Hair and fur is a tricky beast. you basically need to know what the needs of the hair and fur will be. There are many different solutions now, but there are some common basics that can be found in any solution. Hair and fur in CG usually fall into one of these types:
  • Short, looks pretty, and doesn't move (no dynamics on the hairs). This is the easiest to do. you basically spend the bulk of your time geting the renders to look nice.
  • Long, full dynamics. This type can give you issues with the look and the dynamics. Lots of subdivision in the hairs will yield good results.
  • Mix of lengths and dynamics. A character or object has different types of hair/fur along one surface. This is usually best achieved by using multiple grow surfaces and wig/hair systems.
  • Hair or fur that interacts with animation (acted upon by an outside force). This is a very tricky shot. This can be one character pulling the hair of another, a character moving against an object that changes the shape of hair, or something similar. These shots require a lot of back and forth between animation and hair/fur departments and often times a shot specific rig.
  • Hair that changes during a shot. A character morphing into something else, hair growing during a shot (like time lapse), or a character getting wet/muddy/covered in snow, etc. These often are done with multiple renders and clever compositing, however some can be achieved by keyframing major attributes and values.
The big thing you want to do is have a look dev process, and a motion dev process prior to putting the character into full on production. You don't want to be tweaking hair/fur values after animation is completed and the shot needs to be rendered (but often find yourself doing just that). A good hair and fur team works closely with all other departments to ensure the best results. Someone with a background in rigging, animation, textures, and lighting would be an idea hair/fur person.

Also, there are creative ways to cheat almost anything with hair and fur.
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Old 05 May 2009   #50
Originally Posted by FloydBishop: Hair and fur is a tricky beast. you basically need to know what the needs of the hair and fur will be. There are many different solutions now, but there are some common basics that can be found in any solution. Hair and fur in CG usually fall into one of these types:
  • Short, looks pretty, and doesn't move (no dynamics on the hairs). This is the easiest to do. you basically spend the bulk of your time geting the renders to look nice.
  • Long, full dynamics. This type can give you issues with the look and the dynamics. Lots of subdivision in the hairs will yield good results.
  • Mix of lengths and dynamics. A character or object has different types of hair/fur along one surface. This is usually best achieved by using multiple grow surfaces and wig/hair systems.
  • Hair or fur that interacts with animation (acted upon by an outside force). This is a very tricky shot. This can be one character pulling the hair of another, a character moving against an object that changes the shape of hair, or something similar. These shots require a lot of back and forth between animation and hair/fur departments and often times a shot specific rig.
  • Hair that changes during a shot. A character morphing into something else, hair growing during a shot (like time lapse), or a character getting wet/muddy/covered in snow, etc. These often are done with multiple renders and clever compositing, however some can be achieved by keyframing major attributes and values.
The big thing you want to do is have a look dev process, and a motion dev process prior to putting the character into full on production. You don't want to be tweaking hair/fur values after animation is completed and the shot needs to be rendered (but often find yourself doing just that). A good hair and fur team works closely with all other departments to ensure the best results. Someone with a background in rigging, animation, textures, and lighting would be an idea hair/fur person.

Also, there are creative ways to cheat almost anything with hair and fur.



Precisely put Floyd!


Erik, shave and haircut's dynamics have mostly given us a lot of grief due to penetration issues. For long hair, you could have a hair rig setup using dynamic curves in maya and use that with your shave's hair node. Now version 5.0 onwards, you can attach your maya hair system's output curves directly to a shave and haircut node. Check out the spline lock feature in the docs (and in the edit shave node menu).


So far, our project's involved short fur only. So we have mostly escaped doing full blown fur simulations. However, for certain foliage types (like long grass) we did try shave's simulation and it was simply unwiedly.
 
Old 05 May 2009   #51
I would also like to add that I never use the actual render geo to grow or collide with hair in a hair sim. I always create a wig base using the main mesh as a starting point. This allows me total control over the hair from a growth surface.

Hair simulations, as with just about any CG simulation, benifit from using a lower density mesh than what you might want to render. I use fake collision geo (that I don't render) all the time.

Also, don't be afraid to force hair and fur to bend to your will by cranking up values on fields. For example, animating gravity or drag can help with shots that would otherwise be super tricky, if not impossible to achieve. The slow motion hair flick from a shampoo commercial is a great example.
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Old 06 June 2009   #52
btw, does anyone know if S&H 5 works with RMS 2.0??
 
Old 06 June 2009   #53
I don't think completely realistic fur is possible without a dedicated team of software engineers. Your best bet is probably going for something a little more stylized.
 
Old 06 June 2009   #54
great thread !
There is a lot of professionals here, and i have a question about hair and fur in 3dsmax.
is there a way to render a zdepth element with hair and fur ?

.
 
Old 06 June 2009   #55
Originally Posted by visionmaster2: great thread !
There is a lot of professionals here, and i have a question about hair and fur in 3dsmax.
is there a way to render a zdepth element with hair and fur ?
.


There should be a way. I would imagine just use a material override (with zdepth) for the scene, and render the hair that way.
 
Old 06 June 2009   #56
The considerable aliasing problems you get from depth passes with fur normally make them either relatively useless, or at best tricky to deal with.
When dealing with fur, or any other spatial elements that so very often are smaller than a pixel, the confusion in a pass that by definition needs to be sampled straight is often more trouble than it's worth for anything that needs to be precise, or requires considerable massaging before it can be used.
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Old 06 June 2009   #57
Originally Posted by Yeminius: I've found some renders with Modo and look very nice... but I haven't tried it yet. Looks interesting.


Luxology just put this Modo 401 fur render up from Trurl: http://www.luxology.com/community/b...es/Anteater.jpg

Their beta team also posted a "joke real" that shows some fur animating as well: http://video.luxology.com/modo/private/MoveIt.mov
 
Old 06 June 2009   #58
Originally Posted by Skarz: Luxology just put this Modo 401 fur render up from Trurl: http://www.luxology.com/community/b...es/Anteater.jpg

Their beta team also posted a "joke real" that shows some fur animating as well: http://video.luxology.com/modo/private/MoveIt.mov


WOW! I think a few other companies could learn a thing or two from that video.

A great way to show of the technology! The upcoming release of Modo looks awesome.
 
Old 06 June 2009   #59
[QUOTE=Skarz]Luxology just put this Modo 401 fur render up from Trurl: http://www.luxology.com/community/b...es/Anteater.jpg

I have a feeling that that fur on the body is gonna have a lot of anti aliasing issues in a animated scene....
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Last edited by rockyj123 : 06 June 2009 at 03:43 AM.
 
Old 06 June 2009   #60
Originally Posted by Paul McLaughlin: I don't think completely realistic fur is possible without a dedicated team of software engineers. Your best bet is probably going for something a little more stylized.

It's doable right now with out-of-the-box Houdini, rendering with either a Renderman compatible engine or with Mantra.
Here is an interview on odforce which touches on this http://odforce.net/wordpress/?p=95 , http://odforce.net/?p=119 and an interesting masterclass video:
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?opt...1409&Itemid=132
and the docs http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini10.0/fur/

Dragos
 
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