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Old 09-28-2007, 08:23 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuss
The point is exactly this - unless I really missed something here - that I CANNOT pre-order TF2 as a standalone game for $29.95 and get into the beta as of now. I only have the option to pre-order the whole Orange Box for almost twice as much money, and I don't want the other stuff that comes with the Orange Box anyway! .


Just like you couldn't get the Big Daddy figure with BioShock unless you preordered the special edition. It's an *incentive* because the more copies prepurchased, the better. It's a pretty common thing for a for-profit business to do. It's no different then a buy-one-one-free or any limited time offer. They are offering you something extra for purchasing at this time that you won't get later. Just because a sale ends, doesn't mean now you're getting ripped off. Now you're just paying full price.

McDonald's isn't ripping you off because you don't get the Value Meal discount when you don't get a burger and a coke with your fries; they're giving you a discount when you do.

Paramount isn't ripping you off when their movie comes out a week earlier in LA and New York. You'll still get what you're paying for when you do buy that ticket.

Remember, it's just a beta. Many games do closed betas. Prepurchasers are just rewarded with early admission.
 
Old 09-28-2007, 10:53 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuss
Do you now see, why people might not be happy with the way Valve is marketing these releases?

Ah... yeah, I see where you're coming from now - no open beta for the people that JUST want TF2 alone.

I'll agree with mojosmitty though, it's just a marketing incentive from Valve. I think any company would do something similar, giving people some sort of an incentive to buy the bigger package, and make sure it sells well.

Either way, $45 for 5 high quality games (3 of which are new) is a pretty sweet deal to me.
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Old 09-28-2007, 11:16 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuss
The point is exactly this - unless I really missed something here - that I CANNOT pre-order TF2 as a standalone game for $29.95 and get into the beta as of now...

Do you now see, why people might not be happy with the way Valve is marketing these releases?


The thing I don't get is... it's a beta. It's not even a demo. It's just a beta, and people seem to think they have some right to be in it. The game isn't even out yet. Yes, I pre-ordered because I wanted to play the beta, but that's because I knew I was going to buy the Orange Box anyways. I would be very surprised in TF2 sold very well on its own, considering the market and how little it costs to get so much more.

But yeah, it's a beta. It's buggy, lots of people have crashes and screwups and weird things happening. It's not meant to be a special treat, it's meant for Valve to get those things worked out before they release it. Sure, it probably boosted pre-order sales, but I don't know if it boosted overall sales.

Was it worth it? Definitely .
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Old 09-29-2007, 12:09 AM   #64
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TF2 is great, you cant even really notice that it is in Beta. I havent had one crash yet and the whole thing is very very slick. Great game.

Valve are simply superb at what they do.
 
Old 09-29-2007, 01:31 AM   #65
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Well, all right, reading some of the followup comments to my initial posting I came to the conclusion that maybe I read too much into the whole thing after all. Well, maybe (but just in case, if in 2 or 3 years game companies stop doing public betas and allow only people who pre-order their unfinished and unrated games to participate in the beta testing process - and I think the danger is there, because the willingness to pay for "beta keys" is there in many people - don't be surprised if I come back here and say "I've told you" ).

I still don't like what Valve is doing here, but I also came to realize this tactic of "baiting" or "dangling a carrot" seems to be quite common in the industry, and looking at some of Valve's competition it could be much worse. As I said, I don't think the Orange Box in itself is too expensive, I just want to have a choice. I also don't play many computer games anymore and I don't watch TV, so as naive as it may sound, I guess I am just not up to speed with all the marketing tricks and sales pitches nowadays, all of which you seem to accept as normal (yeah, sometimes I do feel I live in a world of my own, thank you ). TF2 was one of the very few games I've been waiting for and looking forward to for many years, so this whole Orange Box - Beta thing just tipped the scales for me I guess. I might have overreacted but I still think common sense is on my side, and I'm a bit disappointed that people came to accept it as normal to be taken advantage of and they even defend it, even if it's only about something of such minor importance as a computer game - but it shows a general attitude. But before I get too philosophical, I think I should stop now, especially since this kind of talk would be more appropriate in a forum dealing with something like world hunger and capitalist First World countries taking advantage of Third World countries than a software company charging for their computer games . Again, I realize I maybe overreacted, in that case sorry for unecessary stirring up the fire. Though I am still not sure I was really wrong, but the future will show...

Oh, just one last thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by eirenicon
The thing I don't get is... it's a beta. It's not even a demo. It's just a beta, and people seem to think they have some right to be in it.


You know, that's exactly the kind of things that start a never-ending flame war. Misreading or ignoring what someone is actually saying and then coming up with some stereotypical answer that warps the message of the original poster, and we're on our way. I never said what you're insinuating, all I did was to criticize what seemed to me as a trick to charge people for testing a game and not giving fair choices to customers. Don't put words into my mouth I've never uttered.

Last edited by fuss : 09-29-2007 at 01:43 AM.
 
Old 09-29-2007, 03:02 AM   #66
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Nobody is "paying for beta keys". Valve has not "baited" anybody into anything or "taken advantage" of anyone. Nor did they use any "trick to charge people for testing a game". I am defending Valve because you are not being fair to them and I think they are worth defending.

As far as I can tell your only legitimate complaint is that buying TF2 on it's own won't get you into the beta. So? Like eirenicon said, it's not a right to be included in the beta. But you chewed him out claiming he was putting words in your mouth. If that's not what you meant, what is the problem?

What really bugs me is all of your condesending comments, claiming that:
"common sense is on my(your) side", that I accept marketing tricks and sales pitches and that I accept being taken advantage of, among other things. Making these assumptions just because we disagree is maddening.
 
Old 09-29-2007, 03:52 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INFINITE
TF2 is great, you cant even really notice that it is in Beta. I havent had one crash yet and the whole thing is very very slick. Great game.

Valve are simply superb at what they do.


I'm experiencing the same thing. I'd rather get back on topic of how awesome of an update from the last TF it was. They have steadily gotten better, from the og quak ver. to the half-life ver. And now this, I think this one will even be more competitive than the last. It could quite possibly be one of the next big team FPS games! Which I personally love! I'm really excited!!!
 
Old 09-29-2007, 04:28 AM   #68
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Yeah, enough of the "its a ripoff / its the greatest deal ever" talk.

We've got 35 members in the CGTalk group thus far... We should choose a date and time in the next week or two to have a big CGTalk deathmatch in a private server! Anyone wanna plan that out?

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Old 09-29-2007, 04:59 AM   #69
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If I had a server, I would. But for now ... look for me playing sometime this weekend. It's been a long work week and I've been looking forward to some more TF2 action.
 
Old 09-29-2007, 10:48 AM   #70
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The game is just awesome. We are playing here at work like hell
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Old 09-29-2007, 11:50 AM   #71
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Easily the best multiplayer game I've ever played, even in beta. Having loads of fun.

For those of you still getting those hangs(with stuttering sound) go to the steampowered forums, there is a huge thread there.

The best fix for this by far is increasing the PagedPoolSize (in the registry) to about 256mb or slightly more. This works great for me. (Valve said they are reducing the amount of PagedPool memory the new Source games use)

There is also a sticky thread there about conflict with some AntiVirus software. (AVG most notably)
 
Old 09-29-2007, 12:54 PM   #72
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I would love to get a CGTalk game going! Just tell me when and where!

By the way, what game type do you all prefer? I've been playing 2fort to death, because I love capture the flag. Capture point is fun as well though.
 
Old 09-29-2007, 04:12 PM   #73
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They made the pyro more powerful in the update. They weakend the demoman a little, his grenades no longer explode on contact after the first bounce.
 
Old 09-30-2007, 04:15 PM   #74
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I would love to go into combat with cgtalk ppl aswell.
My needel and healing gun is always ready for action.

Send me a mess on steam, UI: Kokusho
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Old 09-30-2007, 06:15 PM   #75
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Hows about... Friday, October 5'th - 9:00PM EST (7PM PST)
Think that should give everyone a decent time to login and let the gibs fly.

I dont have a dedicated server, but I could run a server on my system.
If anyone is willing to host on a good server, let me know.
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