Lightwave 2018 Review

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  02 February 2018
Originally Posted by grrinc: Even C4D stalwarts often agree that C4D's 'strength' is that it is an easy to use 'hub' for other plug-ins and renderers now. I don't think this is actually an endorsement, but they seem too.


That is all I really use it for. 
lighting rendering my MDD imported Character
meshes animated in DAZ/Iclone
or my fluids sims from realflow or sending my FBX cameras to
Lightwave2015
for comping my Hypervoxel volumetric particle an smoke sims
in AfterEffects CS.

Several years ago( when my C4D R11.5 was new)
Someone asked a Maxon Employee
,on this site, why C4D was so expensive when it did
not have......(Fill in the Blank)

That Employee replied rather bluntly (paraphrasing):
"Because people are willing to pay this price"


The global market for easily created broadcast graphics
must still be quite large& thriving to this day, because in every other
area ,outside motion graphics, C4D is being smoked
By every other major player and even some minor players
Like Daz 3D where you have two functional dynamic cloth 
options  Optitex & Dforce ,Auto lipsinc from audio,
a nonlinear motion system that runs cirles around
C4D's primative motion clip system and
mocap retargeting from  external sources for Essentially a 
Zero dollar investment.


Spend another $100 USD you get Spline graph editor 
with auto clamping as the default and dope sheet
and MDD export of Figures & Cloth animation
in addtion to FBX which is standard.


I read where the people who made "Xparticles" have taken over 
the development of the Late Cactus Dans  Character tools for C4D
and have actually gotten hold of his "hackintosh" and cracked his password.


while it is a nice testament to the brilliance of Cactus Dan's work,
to my mind it serves as a scathing indictment and bit of a sad commentary
 that people would have to go rummaging through the personal effects
of a dead man to try and salvage some Character animation functionalty
that should be part of the C4D core.  




 
 
  02 February 2018
I own Lightwave 2018, I think Lightwave is very strong in VFX, Movie and games again. However there is again the old UI in two apps for modeler and  another for layout, in near futur it will be change I think maybe 2019 or 2020 lol

I like the new renderer and other FX stuff, I think it is better than the old but i take to keep in two software as Lightwave 2015 and 2018. The possibility is endless so I work well and later i will study more in depth to use properly.

Above from thread someone says C4D is superior but it is not I find Lightwave more superior than C4D cause Lightwave is stable, fast, easy and do whatever you want, of course Lightwave need to improve a lot in particular Modeler to bright more robust as Modo or Blender. The time will say us

I have 4 tools Blender, Lightwave, Modo and Shade, all have strengh and weakness but work pretty well between these tools
 
  02 February 2018
Quote: As for Blender, it would be a viable option if it had a more standard UI/UX design. Bforartists shows how Blender could have been with a better UI. But I wouldn't dream of taking on a large project with Blender, such as an animated CG movie. 5 years from, maybe. But with the current UI, Blender really is not a 3D software I would want to work in 60 hours a week at all. Blender feels ass-backward to me from a UI/UX design standpoint.

Ok, but with the horrid split between modeller and layout, Even with Blender's deficiencies in UI, I'm not sure they're bad enough to want to go with whats basically a software bundle. The worst parts of blender can be changed with preferences or as you say, with BfA. The Blender experience is certainly different, but not particularly bad. 

Re: "if C4D were new, they wouldnt be able to charge the amount they do" I agree, but that would go for most big 3D apps. The inertia does play a role in how much they can charge. I think you can effectively for most people, consider LW to be a new 3D app, given how NT have decimated their userbase over the past 10 years. But that's what also plays a large role in LW's relatively cheap price. If NT had the userbase size they wanted for LW, the price would be back up where it historically was.
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Matthew O'Neill
www.3dfluff.com

Last edited by imashination : 02 February 2018 at 04:09 PM.
 
  02 February 2018
Hey, Matt, love Your work
Seriously I just made a TV spot with character animation in Cinema4D, and there are somethings that are better in LW (weighting, morph maps), but most of the work I have done I would not have tried in LW, because its character tools are clumsy. Cinema hs more in commin with Maya in that regard.The separation between modeler and layout though is a big plus for this kind of work, as its rather easy to change the model afterwwards and always have it in a neutral pose, I found that to require more planning, and above all, MUCH MORE clicks in Cinema4D.
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Emmanuel
PXLRY
 
  02 February 2018
Well, as for UI design Nt  finally started using QTtools in some editor so an UI overhaul is possible.
Now development in that  and other fields has restarted.
For this release they made a good work on rendering engine, lights, shading and more.
Unfortunately for those which don't like it, separation between Modeler and Layout is not a UI thing, but they are 2 separate programs and so its not easily addressed development wise.
Right now they are putting great attention also on working well with engiines like Unity and Unreal, as well as the game market, but i think there's yet lots to do.
IMO, they should work to update Modeler, which is  not bad, but needs work if we compare it to nice modelling tools we can find in Modo and even Maya recently.
Modeler gets better if you use it with some plugin like LwCAD for archiviz and more, and  also 3rdpower, but still, after  being left too much aside, needs more work. They started some with interactive array ad lattice tools....
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  02 February 2018
Originally Posted by ThreeDDude: Several years ago( when my C4D R11.5 was new)
Someone asked a Maxon Employee
,on this site, why C4D was so expensive when it did
not have......(Fill in the Blank)

That Employee replied rather bluntly (paraphrasing):
"Because people are willing to pay this price"



That appears to be the European attitude and strategy to product pricing in general.

For example, neither a BMW car nor a Rolex watch nor any of the designer shit Armani makes is anywhere near "good value for money".

These companies are earning themselves silly because many dumb people are "willing to pay that price".

Some people in China for example are getting rich for the first time in the country's development.

What are they throwing their newly gained money at?

Anything that comes from Europe, is a well known "high-status brand" and has a really high price tag.

Of course this bites European companies in the ass eventually as well.

European companies fail again and again to innovate on time with their products, trying instead to milk their established product for as long as possible.

As long as dozens of new markets with "hungry first-time consumers" emerge in Asia, Middle East, Africa, Latin America and elsewhere, these companies can innovate at a glacial pace, and keep milking their old products by flogging them to new consumers.

For consumers who have become "newly middle-class" or "newly wealthy" in these countries, these products are something that they have never been able to buy before.
 
  02 February 2018
Originally Posted by skeebertus: That appears to be the European attitude and strategy to product pricing in general.

For example, neither a BMW car nor a Rolex watch nor any of the designer shit Armani makes is anywhere near "good value for money".

These companies are earning themselves silly because many dumb people are "willing to pay that price".

>>snip<<<<<<

European companies fail again and again to innovate on time with their products, trying instead to milk their established product for as long as possible.


But lets be honest.. the reason that "high end" name brand
 strategy is so effective for cars and watches etc is because
it raises ones status in the eyes of others and even raises
a mans sexual marketplace value to women....it works


C4D seems to have a loyal userbase that will support Maxon 
until death and are more than willing to endure the viccisitudes of 
having to depend on missing functionality provided by 
third parties who all eventually disappear (along with their plugins) for one reason or another.


As long as this is the apparent case then Maxon has no
logical reason to lower its studio version pricing or update its 
native Character Animation & VFX options
to Maya or Houdini's standards.
 
  02 February 2018
Originally Posted by ThreeDDude: But lets be honest.. the reason that "high end" name brand
 strategy is so effective for cars and watches etc is because
it raises ones status in the eyes of others and even raises
a mans sexual marketplace value to women....it works


C4D seems to have a loyal userbase that will support Maxon 
until death and are more than willing to endure the viccisitudes of 
having to depend on missing functionality provided by 
third parties who all eventually disappear (along with their plugins) for one reason or another.


As long as this is the apparent case then Maxon has no
logical reason to lower its studio version pricing or update its 
native Character Animation & VFX options
to Maya or Houdini's standards.
yes C4D does have a very die hard loyal clan who endure lack of quality upgrades year after year and pay the MSA chasing after the carrot Maxon dangles in front of them in hopes of "this is the year" they improved XXXXX.  if R20 doesn't really hit it out of the park and LW2019(?) gets more improvements then there might be more defections from C4D to other packages like LW, especially with the high cost of C4D compared to LW, Houdini and even Modo.  I will keep an eye on LW
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  02 February 2018


like with Blender, a lot of the nice things about LightWave is the Commercial plugins

LightWave plugins >
RHiggit   $150
Advanced Placement   $200
TurbulenceFD   $500
UP fluids   $100
LightWave Octane   $600
TAFA   $200
Syflex   $200
LWCAD   $350

a LightWave downside is that even though Blender plugins cost dollars too,
Blender is way more robust in terms of General features, and plugins are usually cheaper

while LW plugins are/seem expensive, remember that they usually last for 10+ years

3rd Powers plugins for LightWave are nice, however, things like Lattice & Sculpt
should have been native in LightWave (!)

For character animation and exterior renders LightWave can be a great addition,
other areas however often lack attention.

there are 2 main reasons for the setbacks >
- the Modeler / Layout split for PC was a mistake in 1995
- LightWave CORE project failed in 2009

hopefully, the new part-rewrite Layout code in LW2018 will show major potential,
and hopefully, this will lead to a future gradual merge of Modeler / Layout

for CA using RHiggit / TAFA and for Exterior renders (for example movie set extensions)
it is hard to go wrong with LightWave,

try both apps, see what workflow / standards you like.


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LightWave Forums

Last edited by erikals : 02 February 2018 at 03:49 AM.
 
  02 February 2018
Originally Posted by erikals:

for CA using RHiggit / TAFA and for Exterior renders (for example movie set extensions)
it is hard to go wrong with LightWave,

try both apps, see what workflow / standards you like.



Hi, As I animate my rigs in Iclone pro 6.5 pipeline and export
either BVH  or Alembic, I  honestly,have not played with the Lightwave Genoma rigs
How does Genoma compare to RHiggit? .
 
  02 February 2018

RHiggit is much better, both in terms of the Rigging process, and the Animation process.
also, quite nice for BVH etc according to some users.

a bit more on that from the Master himself >



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LightWave Forums
 
  02 February 2018
+1 for RHiggit .
 
  02 February 2018
Originally Posted by unclebob: yes C4D does have a very die hard loyal clan who endure lack of quality upgrades year after year and pay the MSA chasing after the carrot Maxon dangles in front of them in hopes of "this is the year" they improved XXXXX.  if R20 doesn't really hit it out of the park and LW2019(?) gets more improvements then there might be more defections from C4D to other packages like LW, especially with the high cost of C4D compared to LW, Houdini and even Modo.  I will keep an eye on LW


The reason everybody stays with Cinema4D is the User Interface. It makes working in 3D and with 3D fast and painless.

When you go from C4D to other 3D apps you often think "good God, what is this slow/clumsy/old UI I am looking at?".

But if LightWave 2019 or Blender for example got a UI redesign that is just as good as C4D, C4D would literally lose 50% of its userbase in 2 years.

C4D adds features much too slowly and took a really, really long detour to make the software useful for Architectural Visualization and Product Visualization.

During those years, many people wanted upgrades to character rigging and animation, to dynamics (C4D has no fluid dynamics in 2018), to particles and particularly to rendering.

Maxon did not deliver much on those fronts for several years. It is the really fast workflow and painless UI that kept people from quitting C4D.

Other than that and being able to import a lot of 3D file formats easily, C4D really does not have any tech in it that is more advanced than other 3D softwares.

So yes, LightWave has a chance to make a comeback. The price is great, the UI is really old. A nice, well designed and modern UI would make me buy LightWave.
 
  02 February 2018
Quote: So yes, LightWave has a chance to make a comeback. The price is great, the UI is really old. A nice, well designed and modern UI would make me buy LightWave.


And I hope it does, the more competition the better
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www.3dfluff.com
 
  02 February 2018
Why is not Modo mentioned here as an alternative? It has a nice pricetag and very capable, am I wrong? I use it and like it for this, I am having problems with large scenes, but i am hoping this will be fixed in the future.
or maby Lightwaves Layouter is the solution, buy em both and it’s still cheeper than the other packages (exept Blender..).

Last edited by sirhaffy : 02 February 2018 at 03:40 PM.
 
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