200+ Women In L.A.’s Animation Ind Demand Studios End Sexual Harassment In Workplace

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  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by AJ: I haven't posted in here in over a year and a half but the replies to this thread are absolutely abysmal. The discussion is the genuine real problem of women being sexually harassed in the workplace and the first replies are from men demanding that the focus be on them. If your first response to women trying to stop abuse is to say "what about circumcision?" congratulations, you haven't done anything to help anyone. 

A single woman has dared reply to offer her perspective in this thread and what's happened? She's been attacked. I know that those doing the attacking won't see it that way so I'm not going to convince them otherwise but I would strongly ask them to try take a moment and put themselves in other people's shoes rather than immediately throwing theirs.

It's 2017 and we STILL can't talk about things like this without people deciding it's some sort of fight. The "well, actually..." knee-jerk response, rather than considering that what's being discussed might be beyond your world experience. If anything, it feels like things are getting much more toxic.

If you have any prejudices toward another human being, based on the way they were born - be it gender, race, nationality or sexuality, then it's time to step back and focus on where that hatred stems from. Are you part of the problem? Do you honestly believe that history will prove you right?

Actually we can still talk about and we are. Not everyone is buying the narrative. Life is complex and these discussions bear that out. Those that challenge and debate without throwing around 'omg hater' labels will most certainly be proved right. May I suggest you look into what happened in the UK a few years back? 18,500 children raped and abused over a 20 year period. The police were indoctrinated to look away because it was considered ' politically problematic' to stop child rape. To this day, when this subject is raised, we still hear the usual crowd screeching 'hater!! bigot!! literally Hitler!!'. There are many dynamics at play here. Hence discussion and debate.
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  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by AJ: I haven't posted in here in over a year and a half but the replies to this thread are absolutely abysmal. The discussion is the genuine real problem of women being sexually harassed in the workplace and the first replies are from men demanding that the focus be on them. If your first response to women trying to stop abuse is to say "what about circumcision?" congratulations, you haven't done anything to help anyone. 
Well you miss the point entirely. Circumcision is a very clear illustration of EXTREME stupidity and abuse that still occurs today! If you can't stop that, then what hope do you have for anything else!? YOU chose to make it gender specific and YOU chose to interpret something one way only. If something so clearly wrong is allowed to continue, then what hope is there for something that, can be, much more analogue? 

You complain about the "abysmal" replies, well guess what, you just added your own! 

Last edited by SD3D : 3 Weeks Ago at 12:12 PM.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Although actually, after reading all the replies, I do agree with AJ and Alice regarding some points. You don't date your work colleagues! I don't know what the feeling is, or the expression to describe it, but it irritates me when all (most) the men descend on a new attractive female at the workplace. Leave the poor lady alone! If you become good friends over a year or more, then OK, but anything else is just creepy and suffocating.

Last edited by SD3D : 3 Weeks Ago at 12:42 PM.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by AJ: I haven't posted in here in over a year and a half but the replies to this thread are absolutely abysmal. The discussion is the genuine real problem of women being sexually harassed in the workplace and the first replies are from men demanding that the focus be on them. If your first response to women trying to stop abuse is to say "what about circumcision?" congratulations, you haven't done anything to help anyone. 

A single woman has dared reply to offer her perspective in this thread and what's happened? She's been attacked. I know that those doing the attacking won't see it that way so I'm not going to convince them otherwise but I would strongly ask them to try take a moment and put themselves in other people's shoes rather than immediately throwing theirs.


Totally agree, this is a dumpster fire. There are a few reasonable people here, but this is for the most part just proves the point of the OP in the first place. I think any reasonable person can agree there is a serious problem with harassment against women in the workplace, why is the response of so many men to immediately try and derail the conversation with false equivalence, unrelated topics, and straw man rants? Feminazis? Poisonous Feminists? Seriously? 

I've seen this a lot with friends and colleagues. I find few things more pathetic than grown men being told about women being abused and trying to evade responsibility by saying it happens "it happens to men too!" like a spoilt child jealous for attention. If anyone is really so desperate to avoid moral responsibility for their colleagues the better strategy is to just cower and feign ignorance than out themselves as active degenerates and shrieking apologists. 

The obvious solution to the problem is to just not harass women and respect personal boundaries in the first place and develop a better work culture, but I'm sure there is room for setting up guidelines in contracts and so on. I know at least in academia in my country there are ethics guidelines (e.g. don't date students in your class) that make things that aren't obvious to everyone clearer. Has anyone encountered anything like that in their workplace? 
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by SD3D: Although actually, after reading all the replies, I do agree with AJ and Alice regarding some points. You don't date your work colleagues! I don't know what the feeling is, or the expression to describe it, but it irritates me when all (most) the men descend on a new attractive female at the workplace. Leave the poor lady alone! If you become good friends over a year or more, then OK, but anything else is just creepy and suffocating.

So two adults wish to date and you say they shouldn't?  Why? And to be clear, if the guy initiates it - automatically creepy? And if the girl initiates it - then that's........? Help me out here. 
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  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by grrinc: So two adults wish to date and you say they shouldn't?  Why? And to be clear, if the guy initiates it - automatically creepy? And if the girl initiates it - then that's........? Help me out here. 
That is not what I said. Why do dates have to be initiated on day one at the workplace!? If you work with someone or are their boss, you don't ask colleagues or subordinates out on "Dates"! A natural progression of a friendship over a year or more wouldn't really be a "Date".
You're at work towork! If you want to pick up women do so at a venue where the intentions are obviously mutual!
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by unaccompanieddminor: The obvious solution to the problem is to just not harass women and respect personal boundaries in the first place and develop a better work culture, but I'm sure there is room for setting up guidelines in contracts and so on. I know at least in academia in my country there are ethics guidelines (e.g. don't date students in your class) that make things that aren't obvious to everyone clearer. Has anyone encountered anything like that in their workplace? 

I'm under the impression that this differs a lot depending on where you work, not only what country but in what related field. While the american side uses HR to handle conflicts, that is usually handled by your nearest boss here in Sweden. While I know that professors at Chalmers have a code of conduct to follow I have yet to see a general consensus in writing in work life, at agencies.

I am fortunate to have been freelancing a lot, so if I feel I cant do my job due to colleges, I just remove myself from the equation one way or another. That is on the other hand a growing problem, the amount of freelancers who are ill equipped to stand up for themselves in the freelancer economy.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by grrinc: So two adults wish to date and you say they shouldn't?  Why? And to be clear, if the guy initiates it - automatically creepy? And if the girl initiates it - then that's........? Help me out here. 
Its very, very  simple.  If there is rejection how is it handled? Do both parties move on with maybe just some minimal awkwardness that real professionals move past?
Or is there smoldering hostility and politics that makes the work environment an extremely toxic place for one person? And really - one person only.

 If you can't get over the relationship that you want but the other does not. You are the problem in the workplace. Makes perfect sense to me!

Last edited by circusboy : 3 Weeks Ago at 02:45 PM.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by AJ: I haven't posted in here in over a year and a half but the replies to this thread are absolutely abysmal. The discussion is the genuine real problem of women being sexually harassed in the workplace and the first replies are from men demanding that the focus be on them. If your first response to women trying to stop abuse is to say "what about circumcision?" congratulations, you haven't done anything to help anyone. 

A single woman has dared reply to offer her perspective in this thread and what's happened? She's been attacked. I know that those doing the attacking won't see it that way so I'm not going to convince them otherwise but I would strongly ask them to try take a moment and put themselves in other people's shoes rather than immediately throwing theirs.

It's 2017 and we STILL can't talk about things like this without people deciding it's some sort of fight. The "well, actually..." knee-jerk response, rather than considering that what's being discussed might be beyond your world experience. If anything, it feels like things are getting much more toxic.

If you have any prejudices toward another human being, based on the way they were born - be it gender, race, nationality or sexuality, then it's time to step back and focus on where that hatred stems from. Are you part of the problem? Do you honestly believe that history will prove you right?

I'd suggest rereading what was actually said before getting your pitchforks out
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by Alice: I'm under the impression that this differs a lot depending on where you work, not only what country but in what related field. While the american side uses HR to handle conflicts, that is usually handled by your nearest boss here in Sweden. While I know that professors at Chalmers have a code of conduct to follow I have yet to see a general consensus in writing in work life, at agencies.

Yes both HR and code of conducts issues are part on the contract signing process at a new job, along with NDAs, etc. Pretty standard here in Montreal in our industry at least.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by SD3D: That is not what I said. Why do dates have to be initiated on day one at the workplace!? If you work with someone or are their boss, you don't ask colleagues or subordinates out on "Dates"! A natural progression of a friendship over a year or more wouldn't really be a "Date".
You're at work towork! If you want to pick up women do so at a venue where the intentions are obviously mutual!

Well actually you did say it was creepy. You seem to have a set of rules on how other adults can begin a relationship in what you perceive is the 'correct' way - otherwise it is creepy. These were your words. And so I ask again - if two consenting adults meet at work and begin a relationship, like millions of healthy and normal folk do around the world, why is it creepy? And out of curiosity, can only men be the creepy ones? If a woman initiates a relationship, is she creepy too? Oh and nothing was ever said about 'day one of the workplace' either. It's quite a simple question really.
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Posted by Proxy
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by circusboy: Its very, very  simple.  If there is rejection how is it handled? Do both parties move on with maybe just some minimal awkwardness that real professionals move past?
Or is there smoldering hostility and politics that makes the work environment an extremely toxic place for one person? And really - one person only.

 If you can't get over the relationship that you want but the other does not. You are the problem in the workplace. Makes perfect sense to me!

No one mentioned failure or rejection. All I asked was why is it deemed creepy if two people meet at work and start a relationship? Millions of partners around the world met at work. For some folk, work is the only social contact some people get. So again, considering how toxic the word 'creepy' is, why is it labelled at two consenting adults ( or lets face it - the man ) who are doing what comes naturally to healthy decent humans? Regarding the potential for failure and breakdown, I'd like to think that mature and healthy people can navigate around this. Life is full of disappointments and most folk get that. Incidently, I do agree that an employer should be able to apply rules on workplace relationships, but that's not what was said here. The question was crystal clear - why is it creepy when two people meet at work?
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Posted by Proxy
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by grrinc: Well actually you did say it was creepy. You seem to have a set of rules on how other adults can begin a relationship in what you perceive is the 'correct' way - otherwise it is creepy. These were your words. And so I ask again - if two consenting adults meet at work and begin a relationship, like millions of healthy and normal folk do around the world, why is it creepy? And out of curiosity, can only men be the creepy ones? If a woman initiates a relationship, is she creepy too? Oh and nothing was ever said about 'day one of the workplace' either. It's quite a simple question really.
You fail at reading comprehension. I can't continue.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
Originally Posted by grrinc: No one mentioned failure or rejection. All I asked was why is it deemed creepy if two people meet at work and start a relationship? Millions of partners around the world met at work. For some folk, work is the only social contact some people get. So again, considering how toxic the word 'creepy' is, why is it labelled at two consenting adults ( or lets face it - the man ) who are doing what comes naturally to healthy decent humans? Regarding the potential for failure and breakdown, I'd like to think that mature and healthy people can navigate around this. Life is full of disappointments and most folk get that. Incidently, I do agree that an employer should be able to apply rules on workplace relationships, but that's not what was said here. The question was crystal clear - why is it creepy when two people meet at work?
You are the one who said Its creepy if the guy initiates a romantic relationship. I am not saying this. If its gonna start-that is the most common way.
BUT if she rejects the idea-for any reason- that should be enough. 
An It gets to be harassment if he makes things toxic, or simply just keeps trying.  It gets way more complicated if he's a boss and she's in her first week of work.
I don't have any trouble getting this.
 
  3 Weeks Ago
What Grrinc is saying, though he realises it not, is that it's ok for men to have sex with any woman they want based on the outcome of some very happy relationships that resulted from it. The mere fact that 90+% of those sexual-encounters were actually rape is something he is willing to overlook. 
 
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