Pursuing a Career In VFX Was The Worst Decision i Ever Made

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  06 June 2016
Originally Posted by Michael5188: Try looking into joining some projects on Artella. Could be good practice, get you acquainted with working with others on projects, and help build a network. I haven't used it, but I think it's an exciting direction to head in and could be useful for people in similar situations as you.

https://www.artella.com/#/home


I'll check it out, thanks!
 
  06 June 2016
Originally Posted by ilovekaiju: You don't need to know Chinese. You are there to teach English. The schools will relocate and take care of your visa stuff. Several of my friends work 2 or 3 days a week as professor level if you have ba plus TEFL.
It ain't that hard moving abroad. I've done it 3xs this year, USA to Japan, Japan to US, U.S. to Ecuador. Just simplify and travel light. If you have your BA you can teach English in most Asian countries. China is up and coming and since most folks would rather go to Korea and Japan there is not much demand. Japan is break even for English teachers but regular schedule. Korea save most money but bad schedule. China best schedule and perks but not as clean as other big two. Don't know much about teaching in Thailand but it has good infrastructure and is fun and cheap to live. Philippines doesn't need you. But yeah you don't need to speak the local language. I got by In Japan just fine. At the end of the day it is packing your stuff and getting on a plane. At least your ,only problem can be helped.

I hope you try those other things as well. Everyone else gave good advice toward your work. Just watch the language but I do understand the frustration. Those art schools suck. But you got your ba and it has some power to travel the world and pay your debt. I'm speaking from experience. Heck I no longer know how people can work 5 days a week.


thats what some other people on the polyglot sites i've been studying at said, you just work as a TA for someone who speaks both languages and you learn as they learn. that actually sounds great to me and i'm definitely going to sign up. (japan or china would be cool too if they're not hiring for french or italian) I'm in vegas now and i've got 2-3 months to find some work out here which hopefully is enough time to get all the TEFL stuff squared away. Thanks for all your suggestions, you're awesome dude
 
  06 June 2016
Originally Posted by flightspace: Actually music industry photography is one of the few sources of work i found that did pay. They're fickle, sure, but they're always trying to come up and they need promotional material to do it. Never shot for magazines maybe, but what you said is false, VFX is harder.


What I said is not false; it's an indisputable, objective fact that there are many job opportunities in VFX. It's an industry that employs thousands and thousands and thousands of people around the entire globe. Music photography, on the other hand? Probably fewer than 50 people on the entire planet that derive their income solely from it.
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  06 June 2016
Originally Posted by leigh: What I said is not false; it's an indisputable, objective fact that there are many job opportunities in VFX. It's an industry that employs thousands and thousands and thousands of people around the entire globe. Music photography, on the other hand? Probably fewer than 50 people on the entire planet that derive their income solely from it.

I'm getting the distinct impression that much of advice being offered here is falling on deaf ears.
I've done much the same with photography and musicians as Leigh has. Musicians are the first to bemoan how put upon they are in the industry for low or no pay, no respect, tired of constantly being asked to play for exposure etc. wa wa wa! Now those same individuals are the first to let you know how much they love your photos and tell you that what you are doing is supporting the arts. Quite often, musicians who are aware of your work will let you know that they are playing at a venue if you'd like to come and shoot photos. However, more often than not, they don't come forward with any compensation or even a comp for the door charge.
Point is, they are musicians and hardly loaded with funds for much more than living a month to month living.
The OP apparently is young and not thinking about the big picture.
 
  06 June 2016
Here is some great advice in video format. I put some of this stuff in practice but very inspirational.



Dude is crazy but has some gems here and there.
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  06 June 2016
Originally Posted by Tama: I'm getting the distinct impression that much of advice being offered here is falling on deaf ears.
I've done much the same with photography and musicians as Leigh has. Musicians are the first to bemoan how put upon they are in the industry for low or no pay, no respect, tired of constantly being asked to play for exposure etc. wa wa wa! Now those same individuals are the first to let you know how much they love your photos and tell you that what you are doing is supporting the arts. Quite often, musicians who are aware of your work will let you know that they are playing at a venue if you'd like to come and shoot photos. However, more often than not, they don't come forward with any compensation or even a comp for the door charge.
Point is, they are musicians and hardly loaded with funds for much more than living a month to month living.
The OP apparently is young and not thinking about the big picture.


I mean i wasn't saying its enough to support yourself on i'm just saying i've witnessed demand for it and i've never had to apply to 1000+ places just to get a job doing it. They are pretty flaky when it comes to paying up, but i've made more money doing it overall with significantly less experience. THAT is an indisputable fact. I don't think you can objectively compare one industry to another like that. Not if you want people to take your advice seriously. And i also don't like you calling me deaf just because i practice discernment in the advice that i take and the "objective truths" that i choose to believe. Whether i'm struggling or not, nothing gives anyone the entitlement to commandeer that. Not everything everyone says is valuable to me. I take it with a grain of salt. I'm not here for dogmatic obedience, or to take on your worldviews, i'm not even here for advice. I don't mind that i got it, and there are some people who shared some really good ideas but i honestly just came to share my horror story to warn people who might want to follow the same path.

Now if you honestly want to help me, ilovekaiju has given some good advice, i've had people hit me up over PM with the parts of my portfolio they think i should focus on or refine more or the softwares that could help me do that, or to go back and focus on the fundamentals, the guy who mentioned artella, i mean theres a lot of things people have said that are very valuable to me and i'm going to pursue all of them, throw them at the wall and see what sticks. A lot of people have also PM'ed me saying i'm not alone and that they've experienced a lot of the same things and i think the reason they're PMing me is because they really don't want to face the wrath of trolls like leigh who are honestly not at all helpful, whether you and he accept it or not, there is a way to go about this that i will be receptive to and theres a kind of advice that i will be receptive to and trying to force me to believe as you do is not that way. All leigh did was tell me i'm not at the level where i should be paid for it, that i'm full of myself and that i need to work on myself. Nothing about that is helpful. You're welcome to believe that its true, and it very well might be but it does nothing for me. And i DON'T have to accept it and i AM constantly working on myself and its not for people like him who are quite malicious--whether he has the balls to admit it or not, he doesn't give a damn about my situation and he's not trying to help.
 
  06 June 2016
Originally Posted by leigh: I could rant all day about the state of VFX education, and the way unscrupulous schools fill prospective students' heads with nonsense fantasies about how they're all going to go work on Hollywood features, when anyone working in the industry knows there's simply nowhere near enough jobs to employ these new waves of grads every year. To be perfectly frank, it's an absolute scandal, and the staff at these schools should be ashamed of themselves......


Yeah ALL that for sure, and it's no different to news photography education and courses. Absolutely loads of students graduating into a market with little or no jobs. In news media, they are fighting against people with iphones submitting images for absolutely free.
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  06 June 2016
Originally Posted by Dillster: Yeah ALL that for sure, and it's no different to news photography education and courses. Absolutely loads of students graduating into a market with little or no jobs. In news media, they are fighting against people with iphones submitting images for absolutely free.


yeah that and stuff like this
https://vimeo.com/20718237
i actually reached out to this guy, the good news is that he's employed, the bad news is it is not for photography
 
  06 June 2016
Originally Posted by Dillster: Yeah ALL that for sure, and it's no different to news photography education and courses. Absolutely loads of students graduating into a market with little or no jobs. In news media, they are fighting against people with iphones submitting images for absolutely free.

Yeppers, so many images from cell phones that are plenty fine for those who just need anything and are even happier when it is free.
The recent jobs report for the states was absolutely abysmal with the few good jobs created being in the public section = federal government jobs.

Last edited by Tama : 06 June 2016 at 04:33 AM.
 
  06 June 2016
Originally Posted by flightspace: I mean i wasn't saying its enough to support yourself on i'm just saying i've witnessed demand for it and i've never had to apply to 1000+ places just to get a job doing it. They are pretty flaky when it comes to paying up, but i've made more money doing it overall with significantly less experience. THAT is an indisputable fact. I don't think you can objectively compare one industry to another like that. Not if you want people to take your advice seriously. And i also don't like you calling me deaf just because i practice discernment in the advice that i take and the "objective truths" that i choose to believe. Whether i'm struggling or not, nothing gives anyone the entitlement to commandeer that. Not everything everyone says is valuable to me. I take it with a grain of salt. I'm not here for dogmatic obedience, or to take on your worldviews, i'm not even here for advice. I don't mind that i got it, and there are some people who shared some really good ideas but i honestly just came to share my horror story to warn people who might want to follow the same path.

Now if you honestly want to help me, ilovekaiju has given some good advice, i've had people hit me up over PM with the parts of my portfolio they think i should focus on or refine more or the softwares that could help me do that, or to go back and focus on the fundamentals, the guy who mentioned artella, i mean theres a lot of things people have said that are very valuable to me and i'm going to pursue all of them, throw them at the wall and see what sticks. A lot of people have also PM'ed me saying i'm not alone and that they've experienced a lot of the same things and i think the reason they're PMing me is because they really don't want to face the wrath of trolls like leigh who are honestly not at all helpful, whether you and he accept it or not, there is a way to go about this that i will be receptive to and theres a kind of advice that i will be receptive to and trying to force me to believe as you do is not that way. All leigh did was tell me i'm not at the level where i should be paid for it, that i'm full of myself and that i need to work on myself. Nothing about that is helpful. You're welcome to believe that its true, and it very well might be but it does nothing for me. And i DON'T have to accept it and i AM constantly working on myself and its not for people like him who are quite malicious--whether he has the balls to admit it or not, he doesn't give a damn about my situation and he's not trying to help.


Well, having read what you've tried to convey, I just hope that Leigh is laughing as hard as I am with your response and characterization of Her advice etc. Good luck in your endeavors because you will need it given that you seem to require spoon feeding and as long as you can't figure it out yourself with a minimum of hand holding, most employers will likely find you a high maintenance employee which is not what most employers are looking for.

Last edited by Tama : 06 June 2016 at 02:17 AM.
 
  06 June 2016
I can't really add anything to this, other than the advice from someone with 16 years experience doing mostly freelance CG work in the entertainment industry;

Key points;

As others have pointed out, your work is average, needs to be improved much. Simply put, I've worked with 18 year old kids that show technical stronger examples of work. This can change, just need to keep working at it. Don't ever stop or give up. You have potential, but from the examples you presented, I just know from experience where you sit in the scale. Again, don't take that as negative critique.

One of the first things anyone in the creative industry needs to learn is the correct attitude towards professional critique. It stings like hell, but will only make you stronger if you listen to what people are saying. I definitely had to go through that learning curve! lol

As a freelancer myself, i'm constantly competing with people much younger than myself, with exceptionally stronger work than me willing to work for far less. I put in 100% of my time trying to improve my skills, stay on the ball with new tech etc, but i always know there's some kid out there who's doing 120% the competition is extremely high.

Here's why I think I succeed, and still maintain a healthy amount of work;

I can do pretty much anything you wanna throw at me in the VFX field. I specialize in environments, concept art and matte painting. However I've done texture painting, animation, CG fire/fluid effects, crowd sims, arch viz, prop design, VFX supervision, game, tv, film, haunt industry, music videos, commercials at all levels from small indie jobs to high profile projects .. the list goes on. The point is, I make sure i'm always in a position to say; Yes, i can do that. I know if I was limited to a few skills, I wouldn't have constant work. The people I work with frequently these days know that can pretty much throw anything at me and I will give them something back that might not be the best, but will definitely be enough to please.

I have a positive attitude and aim to nature a good relationship with people in the industry. That guy that you told earlier to stick something up his arss lol, one day he might end up with your resume in front of him ... you just never quite know! If you haven't already, it would be good form to apologize to him, he was been realistic, not mean, he didn't deserve the response you gave.

I'm constantly creating new work for myself. Take a look at my portfolio. Most of it's personal work, and most of that work is what finds me paid work.

I never went to school, college etc, i come from a low end working class family. I just dug my heels in and worked my arss off. I believe what I get out of life, is equal to the effort I put in. Seems to work that way so far.

Take work from everywhere you can. I know some people, that complain about lack of work, that refuse to approach anyone less than the main 10 or so VFX vendors, which is crazy. I work with very high profile, household name clients through relationships i've developed with them over time, however I also find a lot of random work on craigslist and other online platforms, doing the most random shit lol, but in the end it doesn't matter where it comes from, that work equally puts food on the table, pays my bills and keeps my family safe, so i really don't give a shit. If it pays, then i'll take work from wherever I can.

All said man, i feel for you. Your story from the educational POV is all too common, I could use a lot of very strong words to express how i feel about how the education system, that pretty much rapes every artists dreams and aspirations. You were clearly treated in a very bad way.

Keep it up, work your arss of every waking moment of the day, reach out to everyone you can find, give them a positive experience when you communicate with them, be diverse. If you can do this, then you will increase your probability of success

And before you tell me to stick something large and spiky up my ass, i'm ready with a pineapple! just say the word!!!
 
  06 June 2016
Originally Posted by flightspace: Now if you honestly want to help me, ilovekaiju has given some good advice, i've had people hit me up over PM with the parts of my portfolio they think i should focus on or refine more or the softwares that could help me do that, or to go back and focus on the fundamentals, the guy who mentioned artella, i mean theres a lot of things people have said that are very valuable to me and i'm going to pursue all of them, throw them at the wall and see what sticks. A lot of people have also PM'ed me saying i'm not alone and that they've experienced a lot of the same things and i think the reason they're PMing me is because they really don't want to face the wrath of trolls like leigh who are honestly not at all helpful, whether you and he accept it or not, there is a way to go about this that i will be receptive to and theres a kind of advice that i will be receptive to and trying to force me to believe as you do is not that way. All leigh did was tell me i'm not at the level where i should be paid for it, that i'm full of myself and that i need to work on myself. Nothing about that is helpful. You're welcome to believe that its true, and it very well might be but it does nothing for me. And i DON'T have to accept it and i AM constantly working on myself and its not for people like him who are quite malicious--whether he has the balls to admit it or not, he doesn't give a damn about my situation and he's not trying to help.


I am not a he.

Nothing I've said is even remotely malicious.

I did give you advice. I told you to improve your reel, suggested what work to have on your reel, and suggested you diversify.

You'll have to point out the post where I said you're "full of yourself", because I don't see it.

I do post to help people, and I do it because I do actually care; I've spent the last 14 years on this site helping people like yourself, why else would I have over 25k posts, having spent so much time on such a largely thankless task if I didn't give a shit? Thankfully most of the other people actually do want help - the problem here is that you don't want help, you want people to agree with your view of things.

Now, you can call me a troll if you want. But it'd probably be better to consider my posts as coming, not from a cave, but from the perspective of someone with 16 years of VFX experience in numerous studios across three different continents. I know the industry, and I know what it takes to break into it. The problem is that you want people to pat your back, tell you that you're great, and reinforce your sense of entitlement to a job, and anyone doing otherwise, you're being rude and dismissive to. You have been, by far, the most obnoxious and insulting person in this thread (your earlier response to cubiclegangster was astonishing), so for you to turn around and accuse others of malice is utterly astounding.

Not only do you need to improve your work and attitude, you also really need to grow up.
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Last edited by leigh : 06 June 2016 at 04:18 PM.
 
  06 June 2016
Quote: I am not a he.


If you had a dime for every time that happens always me makes laugh lol .. must confess in my own ignorance i thought the same back in the early 2000s
 
  06 June 2016
Originally Posted by leigh: I am not a he.

Nothing I've said is even remotely malicious.

I did give you advice. I told you to improve your reel, suggested what work to have on your reel, and suggested you diversify.

You'll have to point out the post where I said you're "full of yourself", because I don't see it.

I do post to help people, and I do it because I do actually care; I've spent the last 14 years on this site helping people like yourself, why else would I have over 25k posts, having spent so much time on such a largely thankless task if I didn't give a shit? Thankfully most of the other people actually do want help - the problem here is that you don't want help, you want people to agree with your view of things.

Now, you can call me a troll if you want. But it'd probably be better to consider my posts as coming, not from a cave, but from the perspective of someone with 16 years of VFX experience in numerous studios across three different continents. I know the industry, and I know what it takes to break into it. The problem is that you want people to pat your back, tell you that you're great, and reinforce your sense of entitlement to a job, and anyone doing otherwise, you're being rude and dismissive to. You have been, by far, the most obnoxious and insulting person in this thread (your earlier response to cubiclegangster was astonishing), so for you to turn around and accuse others of malice is utterly astounding.

Not only do you need to improve your work and attitude, you also really need to grow up.


I'd say that your last line of advice is probably the area that requires the most immediate attention.
With his attitude, he will have a difficult time finding employment anywhere. Sounds like he's been living in a sheltered bubble around like minded "precious snowflake" millennials and doesn't know what it is like to be around adults etc. Pretty prevalent these days though, not uncommon.
 
  06 June 2016
Pixar is hiring. I would use whatever contacts you had to potentially get you that internship again or get in the door.

The most money and success you will likely achieve will not come from a job ad or completely on your own merit. It will be based on who you know.

I have multiple channels of revenue generating activities. On the graphics side, I have freelance and a main job. On the freelance side, the largest chunks come from people I know and have known for years. The second largest chunk comes from recommendations (again from people I know). The smallest chunk comes from people seeing my work online or forums (specific forums I target for potential clients).

All of my full time gigs have been very well paid and came from who I know. I practically had to shove my portfolio in their face just to feel like I got the job based on my portfolio. I'm a pretty damn good artist, but far from being the best, especially when I look around this forum. However, I am very good at staying employed and busy. I am the sole financial support for a family of 6.

You are young and likely very bull-headed right now. That's normal, many of us were. Open your mind and really see the big picture and try to understand the game. Once you know the rules, then you can master breaking the rules (and getting away with it), bending the rules and going over, under and around the rules. My success (and some major failures) did not come from following the 90%, but by doing what only the 10% are willing to do (other than hurting others or taking advantage of them). I don't work in mainstream VFX (I prefer the Blue Ocean Strategy as opposed to bloodied waters), but I am consistently employed in the field of 3d graphics and animation and consistently get invited to the big kid table when others with more experience and better talent are not.

In the end remember this; if you can't run with the big dogs, keep your puppy ass on the porch.

Focus on what it takes to be a big dog. In the beginning you may have to fake it until you make it ;o)

Last edited by XLNT-3d : 06 June 2016 at 05:32 PM.
 
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