Is the future of Rendering Game Engines?Using Unreal/Unity as a primary DCC Tool

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  03 March 2015
Octane just threw their hat in the ring with OctaneVR free as well, part of their Octane 3 announcement.

http://home.otoy.com/otoy-unveils-octanevr/

Originally Posted by OTOY:
OctaneVR will be released on Windows, OSX and Linux for free for an unspecified period of time as a means of encouraging artists and commercial content creators to experiment freely with OTOY’s VR and AR cinematic rendering tools, and advance awareness and ideas in this nascent medium.

OctaneVR supports one-click exporting of VR images and animations in a format that can be directly viewed with the Oculus 360 Photos and Oculus 360 Videos apps on the Samsung GALAXY Gear VR. Navigable VR content and menus created with Octane Lua scripts can be exported as an ORBX file from OctaneVR and viewed through OTOY’s ORBX Media Player app on GearVR.
 
  03 March 2015
"OctaneVR will be released on Windows, OSX and Linux for free for an unspecified period of time as a means of encouraging artists and commercial content creators to experiment freely with OTOY’s VR and AR cinematic rendering tools, and advance awareness and ideas in this nascent medium."

So I wonder how long until they do the bait & switch?
 
  03 March 2015
From an archviz point of view, I'd say realtime rendering is very attractive.

After you overcome the bottleneck of creating new set of materials for your new rendering engine (if we're not talking about vray rt) - which, since UE4 should support plugins, could theoretically be automated - you should be set for pretty, photorealistic renders.

If you're not looking to create photorealistic renders, you should be fine with today's or even yesterday's solutions in forms of line output, since you make the actual image in the form of 2D collages.

But if anything, I'm a big fan of this trend, because in my opinion it's simply awesome to be able to simulate the outer world in real time with a Titan X .)
 
  03 March 2015
VRayesque Rendering Quality

Well, there's this guy named Koola... Inspired by "The Third and The Seventh" ArchViz Masterpiece rendered in Vray he started to push the limits of Unreal 4 Engine for realistic architectural visualization:
Check out his videos. They are rendered in RealTime via Unreal's Matinee (Cinematic editing module)...









More at his youtube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/user/koooolalala

Pretty impressive
 
  03 March 2015
Well I need to do more studying/practice, but I do think we need to sort of put our excitement for game engines into context.

I mean, UE4 does keep reminding me that I have to "Build the Lighting" (ie: Bake it?) to commit it for rendering if I don't want to be stuck with the "summer day Preview Lighting" the engine does by default.

So in reality I think UE4 uses resources for only a sub-set of calculations and not "absolutely every calculation" for rendering.

If so, we should be stating "real time" in quotes here (probably).

But, is it all still pretty awesome? YES.

Note: Kinda sucks though that Matinee can only output (bloated) AVI files, or image sequences only in BMP, PNG, or JPEG.
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  03 March 2015
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: Well I need to do more studying/practice, but I do think we need to sort of put our excitement for game engines into context.

I mean, UE4 does keep reminding me that I have to "Build the Lighting" (ie: Bake it?) to commit it for rendering if I don't want to be stuck with the "summer day Preview Lighting" the engine does by default.

So in reality I think UE4 uses resources for only a sub-set of calculations and not "absolutely every calculation" for rendering.

If so, we should be stating "real time" in quotes here (probably).

But, is it all still pretty awesome? YES.

Note: Kinda sucks though that Matinee can only output (bloated) AVI files, or image sequences only in BMP, PNG, or JPEG.


http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/gt...ideo/S5670.html

You don't always have to work with Lightmass in UE4. Take a look at this presentation and check out Nvidia's VXGI build. Like it was already mentioned in this thread, there is a convergence happening.

This is Otoy's Brigade:



I'm sure it's running on multiple gpus, but it looks much better than the previous versions
 
  03 March 2015
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: Well I need to do more studying/practice, but I do think we need to sort of put our excitement for game engines into context.

I mean, UE4 does keep reminding me that I have to "Build the Lighting" (ie: Bake it?) to commit it for rendering if I don't want to be stuck with the "summer day Preview Lighting" the engine does by default.

So in reality I think UE4 uses resources for only a sub-set of calculations and not "absolutely every calculation" for rendering.

If so, we should be stating "real time" in quotes here (probably).

But, is it all still pretty awesome? YES.

Note: Kinda sucks though that Matinee can only output (bloated) AVI files, or image sequences only in BMP, PNG, or JPEG.
There's an option to turn off all light baking with: Edit -> Project Settings -> Rendering -> "Allow Static Lighting" = Off (needs an editor restart)

This is used for games with full dynamic lighting. But the features to make advanced dynamic lighting really pretty (e.g. the whole Distance Field stuff) are rather new and have some kinks. Distance Field GI is not included with the current version. It's available if you're building from source but is a highly experimental feature.

There's an older experimental GI system (Light Propagation Volumes) included right now but it's VERY limited and not very usable for complex light situations. https://docs.unrealengine.com/lates...umes/index.html

The Videos from koola above make heavy use of good old Light Mapping. Except for the second video wich is using dynamic lighting to some extend (recapturing the skylight every 250ms and LPV *1).
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  03 March 2015
Originally Posted by Xharthok: There's an option to turn off all light baking with: Edit -> Project Settings -> Rendering -> "Allow Static Lighting" = Off (needs an editor restart)

This is used for games with full dynamic lighting. But the features to make advanced dynamic lighting really pretty (e.g. the whole Distance Field stuff) are rather new and have some kinks. Distance Field GI is not included with the current version. It's available if you're building from source but is a highly experimental feature.

There's an older experimental GI system (Light Propagation Volumes) included right now but it's VERY limited and not very usable for complex light situations. https://docs.unrealengine.com/lates...umes/index.html

The Videos from koola above make heavy use of good old Light Mapping. Except for the second video wich is using dynamic lighting to some extend (recapturing the skylight every 250ms and LPV *1).


Oh.. I didn't know about that! I'll get to that bit though soon enough. I expect 100% dynamic lighting though to cause a render time hit?

At any rate, LightMass or Light Mapping can still get you pretty pictures, eh?

P.S.: That concept you mentioned about about Static vs Dynamic Lighting is the "Light Mobility" topic in UE4 right? It says I can set STATIC or DYNAMIC per lamp?

So if I'm sure a corner of a set never actually changes lighting conditions.. then that can be STATIC and just continue using Lightmass, correct?
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Last edited by CGIPadawan : 03 March 2015 at 04:55 AM.
 
  03 March 2015
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: Oh.. I didn't know about that! I'll get to that bit though soon enough. I expect 100% dynamic lighting though to cause a render time hit?
Yes, fully dynamic scenes have the most performance cost. But with deferred rendering in UE4 you can actually have a large number of dynamic lights if you don't use shadows for everything. But only Game Dev's have to worry about this stuff, we as filmmakers can turn on all features and still get decent "render times".

Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: At any rate, LightMass or Light Mapping can still get you pretty pictures, eh?
Absolutely, actually this technique has the highest quality currently (full GI, can render Area Lights with bounces and light from emissive materials etc.).

Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: P.S.: That concept you mentioned about about Static vs Dynamic Lighting is the "Light Mobility" topic in UE4 right? It says I can set STATIC or DYNAMIC per lamp?

So if I'm sure a corner of a set never actually changes lighting conditions.. then that can be STATIC and just continue using Lightmass, correct?
Yes this is correct.
STATIC Lights are baked to the Light Map with Lightmass, BUT Lightmaps often have a very low resolution and with this the shadows have a low resolution too (undesired for prominent lights). And movable objects don't get shadows from this light. Performance: no additional render cost

STATIONARY Lights are a combination of Static- and Movable Lights. Basically they're getting the indirect lighting from the Light Maps and the direct lighting is dynamically calculated. So you can't move them but you can animate color and let them flicker etc. Movable objects are getting shadows from this light (and cast them). Performance: Middle
Performance also depends on how many movable objects you have in the Influence Radius of the light source.

MOVABLE Lights are fully dynamic and no Light Mapping is created. You can move them around and animate everthing. But you have no indirect lighting (this is why there are so many GI implementations currently in development DFGI, VXGI, LPV). Performance: slow

Happy Lighting!
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Animation in 3 days: "The Invasion"
Industrial Visualisation: "Extraction System"

Last edited by Xharthok : 03 March 2015 at 07:04 AM.
 
  03 March 2015
Thanks! I must say it does feel more and more positive the more times I "sit" in UE4.

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  03 March 2015
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: Well I need to do more studying/practice, but I do think we need to sort of put our excitement for game engines into context.

I mean, UE4 does keep reminding me that I have to "Build the Lighting" (ie: Bake it?) to commit it for rendering if I don't want to be stuck with the "summer day Preview Lighting" the engine does by default.

So in reality I think UE4 uses resources for only a sub-set of calculations and not "absolutely every calculation" for rendering.

If so, we should be stating "real time" in quotes here (probably).

But, is it all still pretty awesome? YES.

Note: Kinda sucks though that Matinee can only output (bloated) AVI files, or image sequences only in BMP, PNG, or JPEG.


I think most of your questions were answered by the other guys but we are talking about the future or the present?
I've been watching NVIDIAS CEO Jen-Hsun Huang speeches at GDCs (Game Developers Conference) and GTCs (GPU Technology Conference) over the last years. These conferences are held in the 1st quarter and year after year i'm absolutely amazed on how GPU technology has evolved.
So actually its not the games engines that are the future of rendering but the GPU technology. Parallel Processing VS the "Old" Logical Processing...
If you understand a little of the technology inside your Workstations you will see that today we have a "computer" inside our "computer". I'm talking about the Graphic Card (GPU).
If we remember when this technology appeared, the first video cards were specifically programed to handle "Transform & Lightning" for games and 3D applications. That means it was responsible for transforming the 3D triangles calculated by the Logical Processors (CPU) into Pixels with Color and Opacity.
Today, GPU's programming capabities (specially after the development of CUDA) are far more complex. GPUs can calculate all sorts of stuff. NVIDIAS technology is gradually trying to overcome CPU's. They have Chips like TEGRA which perform as both logical and parallel processing. For now it's a Mobile solution but we can imagine that going into Workstations.

So, don't matter what Software we are talking, 3D or Game Engine, what we are seeing is a push to render trhough Parallel Processing via the GPUs instead of the tradional bulky CPUs...

To understand more of this I recommend watching NVIDIA's CEO Speeches at these conferences and also at Siggraph from the last 3 years at NVIDIA's youtube channel.
 
  03 March 2015
Actually, Falk answered it quite well by pointing out to me that UE4's lighting can occur in 3 modes ranging from Static to Full Dynamic.

In addition, yes, there is a push for more GPU's/Parallel GPU's but for Unreal 4 it is not yet supported.

https://answers.unrealengine.com/qu...upport-sli.html

Originally Posted by Paul Oliver, EPIC GAMES: Out of the box, if you wish to use all the features of UE4, you should forgo SLI.

The most common form of SLI is know as AFR (Alternate Frame Rendering) where each GPU handles a different frame. [ This is what we did with Samaritan on UE3 - 3 GPU's each handling a different frame ].

The deferred rendering techniques used by UE4 rely on data from the previous frame to render the current frame and as a result are not SLI friendly. You could investigate which features are needed for SLI and potentially avoid them, however since that is not a usecase we have here at Epic, i'm not sure how well it will work as we keep extending UE4 with new functionality.
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  03 March 2015
Hey guys. Just some works made by me using UE4.







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http://www.minas3d.com/
 
  03 March 2015
Originally Posted by rafaelreis: Hey guys. Just some works made by me using UE4.



Thats pretty cool. I've been playing around with the engine myself and I'm wondering how do you get the clean reflections? I always get very dithered/noisy reflections that looks like they don't have enough samples or something. I've tried putting out a postproccessvolume and enabling Screenbased reflections, but it doesn't give me a nicer result.
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Last edited by zpanzer : 03 March 2015 at 08:17 AM.
 
  03 March 2015
UE4 tests

Hello to everybody,
I´m new here but I want to make a contribution to the thread. I´ve been playing around with UE4 for months and I have to say that this is getting serious. Please let me post a couple of my test with this engine:



Hope you like it.

Javi
 
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