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Old 08 August 2014   #16
Originally Posted by RobertoOrtiz: I honestly thing that the business approach using by the Blender Foundation has affected the industry.

While I agree the Blender Foundation has stirred things up, I doubt if they are the main factor in all this...
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Old 08 August 2014   #17
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: Actually the chances that a brand new one would use Blender has been increasing. Many studios in China that opened recently use it.

It's also used now for TV idents and Pre-Viz work.


Glad to know. This isn't shocking. As per the other thread (Indian animation) Blender is good enough based on the targeted level (and budget). If a studio doesn't plan to be cutting edge (as in doing Siggraph level research every time you work on a new animation) then Blender is okay. This also to an extend reduce business overhead.

When you start fresh you also are not chained to legacy toolchain.

Talking about Blender, have there release latest demo reel? need to start googling.
 
Old 08 August 2014   #18
Originally Posted by Hirazi: While I agree the Blender Foundation has stirred things up, I doubt if they are the main factor in all this...


There is definitely an increasing trend in Computer Art and Animation courses that have noted their freshmen list Blender as their first 3D app.
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Old 08 August 2014   #19
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: There is definitely an increasing trend in Computer Art and Animation courses that have noted their freshmen list Blender as their first 3D app.

That's definitely good news, on the educational front the Foundation can pocket imho.

OT: Do you know off hand if the trend includes other OSS options aside from Blender pushed by various CGI course providers?.
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Old 08 August 2014   #20
Originally Posted by sakboi: That's definitely good news, on the educational front the Foundation can pocket imho.

OT: Do you know off hand if the trend includes other OSS options aside from Blender pushed by various CGI course providers?.


In 2D painting Gimp is also mighty popular as is Krita.

What's interesting is that at some levels, the students themselves are experimenting with Importing and Exporting between Blender and the other applications that are taught/provided at school, especially if it comes down to beating a deadline using an application they already know quite well.
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Old 08 August 2014   #21
@CGIPadawan - thanks for the feed back, its fascinating for me anyways that OSS solutions unbeknownst to myself until now are indeed an contributing resource within the formal tuition environment, which bodes well for their continued validity in all honesty as a user "first party" app of choice.

Cheers ;)
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Old 08 August 2014   #22
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: There is definitely an increasing trend in Computer Art and Animation courses that have noted their freshmen list Blender as their first 3D app.


I haven't claimed Blender wasn't influential in bringing about some change, I merely claimed that I don't think it to be the driving force behind the changes we might or might not (the jury's still out on that one, as far as I am concerned) be seeing. Blender probably still won't even be on SideFX or Pixars radar, realistically, so I doubt if Blender will have already made a mark on either companies' licensing shift...
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Old 08 August 2014   #23
Originally Posted by Hirazi: I haven't claimed Blender wasn't influential in bringing about some change, I merely claimed that I don't think it to be the driving force behind the changes we might or might not (the jury's still out on that one, as far as I am concerned) be seeing.

Agree, its all about getting their own programs into the low cost pipelines. (imho) Once modo and autodesk started this trend it was a no brainer for the others would follow. (Especially sidefx, wich already had a more or less artist friendly licencing scheme.)
But if they really would make this as an answer to blenders popularity, they would also try to cover some of the "features" blender does have especially for the indie game dev market . (open source exporters / a more or less accepteable uv and texturing pipeline etc) - Wich they doesn't.

Originally Posted by Hirazi: Blender probably still won't even be on SideFX or Pixars radar, realistically, so I doubt if Blender will have already made a mark on either companies' licensing shift...

Not that sure about pixar: giving open source programmers no costs access to their renderer might be part of their strategy.
 
Old 08 August 2014   #24
** edit ** wrong thread
 
Old 08 August 2014   #25
Originally Posted by Hirazi: I haven't claimed Blender wasn't influential in bringing about some change, I merely claimed that I don't think it to be the driving force behind the changes we might or might not (the jury's still out on that one, as far as I am concerned) be seeing. Blender probably still won't even be on SideFX or Pixars radar, realistically, so I doubt if Blender will have already made a mark on either companies' licensing shift...


Well the truth is if you asked the Blender Foundation which groups use Blender, they'd tell you they don't really care.

If you ask them who they're designing it for, they'll say: "Anyone or No one".

I was just saying it has become notable these days that people take their first steps now with apps like Blender in doing CG. This, or other app-use scenarios, probably each have their own circumstances.

It is also not easy for commercial apps to imitate Blender because Blender is not built on some kind of marketing strategy/product plan dictated feature list. Blender is just a Frankenstein's monster that keeps acquiring new features.
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Old 08 August 2014   #26
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: I was just saying it has become notable these days that people take their first steps now with apps like Blender in doing CG. This, or other app-use scenarios, probably each have their own circumstances.

I do not disagree, my point was all about them influencing the business practices of commercial companies. If they had any influence like that, it would have shown earlier.

Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: It is also not easy for commercial apps to imitate Blender because Blender is not built on some kind of marketing strategy/product plan dictated feature list. Blender is just a Frankenstein's monster that keeps acquiring new features.

On this I (sort of) disagree. The fact that they do not seem to have a clear long-term product plan does obviously not mean there isn't an underlying strategy. The way the OpenMovies drove development forward in specific fields was a good example of that IMHO.
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Old 08 August 2014   #27
It has been evolving over several years and also the result of a maturing market space, and it has almost nothing to do with Blender.

A mature market is one where you have one or a few big companies which eat up most of the high end market; those below a certain price point differentiate themselves by a mix of pricing and special features. Often the big companies find they have become their own competitors (either with products around the same price point or vs previous versions).

Consumer / Prosumer tools can still live and thrive, mostly because of price points and very specific kinds of value.

You give products away for free because you want to pull as many new, potential customers into your sales funnel as possible with the least investment. Many free users can be converted later if you can continue to engage them, and/or they invest in your technology. They've figured out, based on their business model, what they can give away without cannibalizing where they want to make money.

This method isn't specific to 3D. You find it in many vertical software markets. One example is the database technology market. I sell software in both of these vertical markets.

You can say its also a "how do I compete with free?" and plug Blender in there among others; but all of these vendors have had messaging that has addressed that for some time (because that's a part of swimming in mature market seas). Blender is FOSS, but it doesn't have a true commercial upsell ( as compared to MySQL in database land).
 
Old 08 August 2014   #28
That sounds like a very reasonable explanation. Thanks for that.
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Old 08 August 2014   #29
Originally Posted by Hirazi: On this I (sort of) disagree. The fact that they do not seem to have a clear long-term product plan does obviously not mean there isn't an underlying strategy. The way the OpenMovies drove development forward in specific fields was a good example of that IMHO.


I have exchanged more than a few messages with Ton Roosendaal. And let's just say he does have a plan.... but it is a world apart from any kind of strategy you and I would normally associate with software. It's basically a "function first, before form" kind of logic.

Like I been saying: It's Frankenstein's monster. But the kind of monster all of us Blender users love.
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Old 08 August 2014   #30
Originally Posted by lynnfredricks: It has been evolving over several years and also the result of a maturing market space, and it has almost nothing to do with Blender.

A mature market is one where you have one or a few big companies which eat up most of the high end market; those below a certain price point differentiate themselves by a mix of pricing and special features. Often the big companies find they have become their own competitors (either with products around the same price point or vs previous versions).

Consumer / Prosumer tools can still live and thrive, mostly because of price points and very specific kinds of value.

You give products away for free because you want to pull as many new, potential customers into your sales funnel as possible with the least investment. Many free users can be converted later if you can continue to engage them, and/or they invest in your technology. They've figured out, based on their business model, what they can give away without cannibalizing where they want to make money.

This method isn't specific to 3D. You find it in many vertical software markets. One example is the database technology market. I sell software in both of these vertical markets.

You can say its also a "how do I compete with free?" and plug Blender in there among others; but all of these vendors have had messaging that has addressed that for some time (because that's a part of swimming in mature market seas). Blender is FOSS, but it doesn't have a true commercial upsell ( as compared to MySQL in database land).


Definitely not seeking to big-up Blender as a "competitor".... in fact it was one of those things I discussed with Ton where he was very clear to state he has no visions of competing.

But what I'm saying is, depending on circumstances per-artist, the presence of Blender or other forms of "available for free" items have influenced perhaps how markets operate.
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