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Old 02-28-2014, 01:50 PM   #1
chris0320
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Mudbox or zbrush?

I need a sculpting software, I just dont know which one to choose. I tried mudbox once (just for an hour, never really needed it) but i havent triend zbrush, only watched someone use it in a youtube video.
I would need it for sculpting characters (humans mostly).
Is there any major difference between mudbox and zbursh? Should I use zbrush just because most of the people use it (is it maybe a requirement in some studios)?
Because I like the idea of having mudbox better than having zbrush, but if zrbush is better in some way, I'll go with that.

Thank you.
 
Old 02-28-2014, 01:55 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris0320
Because I like the idea of having mudbox better than having zbrush, but if zrbush is better in some way, I'll go with that.


So you're planning to spend hundreds (or, in your case, thousands of forint) on some software just because some people on a forum tell you to use it?

Here's what you do: you get the demo versions of both pieces of software and give them both a thorough workout. Decide which one suits your style of working and your needs better, and choose that.
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:57 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris0320
I need a sculpting software, I just dont know which one to choose. I tried mudbox once (just for an hour, never really needed it) but i havent triend zbrush, only watched someone use it in a youtube video.
I would need it for sculpting characters (humans mostly).
Is there any major difference between mudbox and zbursh? Should I use zbrush just because most of the people use it (is it maybe a requirement in some studios)?
Because I like the idea of having mudbox better than having zbrush, but if zrbush is better in some way, I'll go with that.

Thank you.


For your needs I would choose whatever you feel most comfortable in.

Zbrush has a lot more features than Mudbox, but you may never really use them.

I can almost assure you that any mid-sized studio have both. If not, then well, your sculpting skills is still there, just different interface.

So ignore people saying x is better than y. Use whatever you are comfortable in, use whatever the job requires if not given the option to use the other.

Same goes for 3d packages in general I would like to say, however having some experience in the popular ones doesn't hurt.

Best regards
//Morgan
 
Old 02-28-2014, 03:22 PM   #4
chris0320
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I thought there are maybe some features in one software that lacks the other so making the first a better choice (features that i would actually need/use for body/face sculpting).
Thank you. I'll install the demos and check out both.
 
Old 02-28-2014, 03:59 PM   #5
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Yep, download them and try them out for yourself. And do not forget to include 3dCoat with the other two while you are testing.
 
Old 02-28-2014, 04:32 PM   #6
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Mudbox is much easier to use, because it's more like other 3D programs (Maya, 3ds Max) but Zbrush has a lot more features and if you're going to be getting into sculpting a lot (like you want to be a character artist) it's best to spend the time to learn Zbrush. The one area Mudbox is actually better for is painting textures
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:48 PM   #7
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I got the educational version of Mudbox and found it very easy to get up and running, literally in an evening. A while later I tried ZBrush on a friends laptop and was blown away by all it can do. The interface takes more time to adapt to than the one in Mudbox, but ZBrush does so much more that it is worth spending the bit of extra time learning.

You really need to try both yourself and not go out and plonk down a large wedge of cash for either "because most of the people use it". Forum advice is just to be taken on board , but you should try before you buy if possible.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
Here's what you do: you get the demo versions of both pieces of software and give them both a thorough workout. Decide which one suits your style of working and your needs better, and choose that.

Yeah. That's the only answer, imo, that makes sense. Everybody's needs are different. Everybody's sensibilities are different. What works for me won't work for you. The bottom line is that both apps get the job done, but in different ways. I always hear people shouting the virtues of Mudbox. For me, ZBrush works better. From concept to final, I can do more without leaving the ZBrush. That's just me though. People are different.

TBH, if we're just testing demos here, I'd expand my horizons. Test those two, but also test 3D-Coat, Silo, and even Blender. Some people don't need anything beyond mid-range detail when it comes to sculpting. Those latter two apps are cheap enough and functional enough to just fit the bill. Try them. All you can lose is a little bit of time.

Beyond that, comparing apps is worthless. It all comes down to what you can do with them as an artist. Sculpting is sculpting.

EDIT>>> Just to a give the OP something to think about, here are a few of the essential ZBrush features that I can't find elsewhere.

- Dynamesh: It's like working with real clay. VERY dynamic. You can create a hyper-detailed character from just a tiny sphere. The fact that it's adaptive is a huge selling point.
- ZSpheres: If you've ever sculpted from a wire armature, this is about as close as you'll get in ZBrush. Building figures up from a stick figure skeleton is great. Being able to pose them with that same skeleton is even better.
- ZRemesher: I'm usually not a huge fan of automated solutions, but ZRemesher is just awesome. I'm not saying that it's perfect, but it can produce some excellent topology. With enough practice, you can retopo a complex mesh in minutes compared to hours in another app.

Either way, like I said, sculpting is sculpting. If you can/can't do it on one app then you can/can't do it in another. It's all a matter of how you do it.
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Last edited by cookepuss : 02-28-2014 at 07:29 PM.
 
Old 02-28-2014, 08:16 PM   #9
chris0320
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Thanks guys. I'll just do the same sculpting on the same model in different softwares and see which suits me better .
 
Old 02-28-2014, 08:20 PM   #10
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If you've never digitally sculpted before, at least not with any regularity, you may want to break yourself in with something easy first. Sculptris isn't a very powerful little app, but it's a great stripped down sculpting tool. It's like Mudbox or ZBrush on training wheels. All of the basics, but nothing more. Best of all, it's free. If you're looking for something for speed sculpts or to get you acclimated to 3D sculpting as a whole then Sculptris is nice to have on hand. http://pixologic.com/sculptris/
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:39 PM   #11
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Thanks, scuptris looks good. Zbrush is definetly too complex for me now and mudbox as well.
Based on your experiences, do you think one can learn HQ face sculpting in a month? (body is not that important now.) Im just curious, because it looks easy enough to learn it in a month (and i need some game-ready characters in two months).
 
Old 03-01-2014, 04:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris0320
Thanks, scuptris looks good. Zbrush is definetly too complex for me now and mudbox as well.

Yeah. Baby steps. Get to know the concepts before you commit to a bigger tool. It's tough to evaluate either ZBrush or Mudbox if you don't know what to look for. At least with some practical experience under your belt you can figure out what you like or don't like about those other apps.

Quote:
Based on your experiences, do you think one can learn HQ face sculpting in a month?

I won't say "no", but I do think that it requires a big commitment on your part. Humans are among the most difficult things to model or sculpt. It's almost like saying, "I just got my learner's permit to drive. Do you think that I stand a chance at winning NASCAR?" Nothing's impossible. Just improbable. With lots of practice, you can get pretty good inside of a month. I'm sure that you can accomplish quite a bit and get some solid results, especially if you've got some raw talent too.

That said, mastery of anything takes time Some of us have been doing CG for decades and still find much room for improvement. There's an old, if somewhat overused, saying about how it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert at something. I'm sure that you've heard it.. again and again AND again.

When you think about it, it's actually not THAT insane. What does 10,000 hours really mean? 10,000 hours is basically like working the same full time job for 5 years. 10,000 hours, translated into post-grad school years, might be the equivalent of getting a BA, MA, and PhD.

Yeah, but what does it REALLY mean?!? Basically, while it makes sense if you break down the numbers, the real number varies. All it means is that you don't become a master overnight. It takes time, lots of time, to get really good at any one thing. For some people, to become an expert does mean going to that PhD level of training. For others, it means busting your @$$ day and night until you no longer suck.

Don't be afraid to fail. You WILL suck. You will suck HARD. However, with each model, you'll suck a bit less. As long as you're open to honest criticism and don't take it personally, you'll get better. You just have to be patient. I've seen some artists become inconceivably incredible in the span of a year or two. I've seen some people make slower and more steady strides in that same span. I've also seen some people struggle for months and then suddenly... SNAP! It all clicks for them and they grow at an unprecedented rate. I've also seen some people, sadly, spin their wheels and not progress much.

Quote:
(and i need some game-ready characters in two months).

IOW, you want to be a pro (practically) overnight. Even if you practice for 40 hours a week, you're only looking at 160 hours. That's barely 13% of a single college year. I'm sure that it's possible to get good enough to be passable in a month. Commercial level good? Probably not. That's unrealistic. Find one top row or working artist here who got that good in a single month. You won't find any. Everybody's different. Just not THAT different. You'd have to be modern day Da Vinci.

How good are you with real clay? Don't answer. Just consider that. ZBrush, Mudbox, and other sculpting programs are designed to mimic real world sculpting tools. If you struggle with real clay then that same problem is going to translate to the digital world, PLUS a learning curve for the software.

All I can tell you is that everybody's different. Just work hard, be patient, and never give up. If you've already committed yourself to a big project 2 months down the line, it might be necessary to rethink your involvement. If it's your project, maybe it's necessary to reconsider the design and go a bit more stylized while you steadily master photorealism.

These apps are good, but they're only as good as the person using them. 10% inspiration. 90% perspiration. I haven't met an app with a "Make Cool 3D" button yet. Sorry.
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Last edited by cookepuss : 03-01-2014 at 04:22 AM.
 
Old 03-01-2014, 10:20 AM   #13
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Zbrush is really quick and even on lower end computers the sculpting process is very smooth. Pixologic have put in a lot of effort to help users develop work efficiently by providing at least 6 major methods for going from concept to finished product and then from that to other applications. I think that how fast Mudbox is will depend a lot on your setup.
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:40 AM   #14
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I know both apps, and can say it's not even a race. Zbrush is far superior and feature rich than Mudbox. When you buy Zbrush once, you get every update for free whereas you have to pay every year for Mudbox. The only thing appealing about Mudbox is that it is easy to use if you have prior experience with conventional 3d apps.
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:41 PM   #15
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Thanks for the answers and for cookepuss for taking the time to write that long answer. Yes, i heard many times the 10,000 hour "rule", and i think it's true (you need a few years to be good at something}.
I actually took clay-sculpting classes and i was pretty good by the and of the (3-month-long) course . We made some heads, skulls, hands... I'll do my best and see what can I learn/create in two months.

It would be great to have the characters in two months (to move onto animation and write the code for every animation), but its not actually a deadline, because the people who want to create the game are mostly programmers and a month ago when I asked, they told me they cant find a second modeler, so they haven't really advanced in the modeling phase i assume. So a basic character without a face would do the job, to create the movements/animation and write the code for the first objects. I can refine the characters later.
 
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