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View Poll Results: Modeling vs Sculpting vs Drawing
Modeling 12 37.50%
Sculpting 8 25.00%
Drawing 12 37.50%
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:54 AM   #1
blackdragonstory
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Question Modeling vs Scuplting vs Drawing

Hi everyone.
I am 20 and I am unemployed.
I only finished high school which isnt related to any of the named paths.

I started modeling 4 years ago while I was still in high school.(in my free time)
First program I used was "Google SketchUp".
I did some solid models and was amazed of the whole modeling thing.

It passed a short time when I managed to get my hands on 3Ds max.
In that time I modeled stuff every day,watched hundreds of tutorials on youtube.
That time I found out that I really like modeling characters,but I sucked at it obviously.
I still didnt give up.
After 3 years have passed I lost some of that interest cuz of frustration.
But I was still modeling here and there.

At that time I already had a project going on.A game about beyblade.
It's probably every little boy dream.(I still remember those games I played as a kid on my playstation 1)
I had many worries beside my modeling.
Being a leader isnt easy as most think,like I thought at first.

From that game which is now in a very slow development as I never had a crew that I couldnt relly on for other things like animation,rigging,programing.... I started learing all those myself.

So I would say that those other knowledges are nice to have if for example I dont have someone to do it or if I want to do a preview of my char.Small animation would be better to normal people than just model pics from side/front and 3/4 view.

So with all those new things to learn,that kind of stops me from learning/practicing modeling.
It's connected to that game mentioned before.
I just dont want to disapoint all those fans that are supporting us.
It would mean that the first game I wanted to create was a failure,how could I think of my future games then.

Anyways,let's proceed with story.
I tried many other programs like maya,blender...but I feel that 3ds max is the one for me.
My speed is much bigger in it than in blender for example.
In blender I dont know where is what.Everything seems to be owfully organized.

One of programs that I found out was Zbrush.
I like character modeling,which is organic modeling and Zbrush seems the right tool for it.
I use Zbrush some times,but it feels like I am again at the beggining like I was with modeling in 3ds max.

I watched some of the models professionals did and it was clear that they used Zbrush to achieve awesome details.(it could be mudbox,but its the same thing).
I feel like the next generation is here.
Like the modeling part is going more and more towards sculpting.Even for games.
And basicly is it worth learning modeling if the result would be 48:24 hours in favor of sculpting for some model.Means I would need 2-ice as much hours to model the same amount of details in a model I would do in Zbrush/Mudbox...
And yet there is still feeling that when I fail at sculpts 50 times I would get frustrated or something and leave it for some time.

After all of this I bought myself a wacom tablet,intuos pen and touch.
I heard that someone that knows how to draw well,can do better models.
So I started drawing some random stuff that come my mind.
It was nothing extraordinary,cuz I am just a begginer.

But when I was drawing these random stuff I noticed that I was really happy when I did them and I didnt even notice that several hours passed.
This is the same thing that happened to me when I was modeling characters,but I was frustrated in the end cuz those models didnt look as good as I thought they would be
While when I drew crappy images,I was still happy
But I cannot see if I could ever become a professional 2D artist.

So in the end you can see why I am confussed.
I dont know if I should keep up and try to strenghten all 3 or just 1.
Should I drop learning animation or rigging(I know some basic to intermediate stuff),but that's not where my interest is.
There are other questions in the in the text as well.

This is my 4,almost 5 years story.
And it's not a short one so I thank you for reading.
I shall await for your answers,advices or storys.

Last edited by blackdragonstory : 02-19-2014 at 10:03 AM.
 
Old 02-19-2014, 02:00 AM   #2
darthviper107
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Zbrush is a tool that makes things easier for people who know how to model things already, it's not something that makes modeling easier for those that are just getting started. There's workflows to learn like you would with any new program but a lot of it comes down to learned skills like anatomy. The best advice I think for someone trying to learn is to work off reference, try to replicate something that you can easily compare to.

As far as what you should do--these days you can't be a good character artist without knowing a sculpting program like Zbrush or Mudbox. But you also need your foundation in polygonal modeling in a main 3D app like Maya or 3ds Max. As far as drawing goes, you don't need drawing to be a good 3D artist. It doesn't hurt, but if you're starting from scratch on both 3D modeling and drawing, doing more drawing won't make you a better 3D artist. If you think you might like drawing better, consider a job doing something related to that like concept art. There's a large number of areas in art so it's best to find what you like the most and if you work hard you can be very successful.
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:52 AM   #3
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I understand your predicament.

This feeling that you learn something only to realize the industry is now going elsewhere is extremely common for all 3D artists. I'd argue it's also true of many industries.

Technology has exponentially increased the capacity for progress.

The problem is only minor once you are in the industry, because in a number of occasions the "new methods" are your invention.

The problem is slightly worse for students, because their curriculums may be outdated, or may suddenly change.

And finally this problem is a bit frustrating for self-taught types and hobbyists (you and me) because what we set for ourselves to learn is limited by our experience.

However, I guess that only becomes bad if you view it as a problem. I for one, get frustrated only for 30 seconds, as I am soon overcome by how awesome the new method is and try to adapt to it straight away.

As for not being employed.... You have to take stock of reality. Where do you live? What opportunities exist in the immediate area or time? If you can't get hired as an artist where you live, where could you realistically go first to land that job?

There's nothing saying you cannot do some other job while working towards what you want. Many actors, for example, spend their early working lives as waiters or other low-end work which allows for a lot of off-time so they can pursue what they need to do.

And time spent working in the "real world" is not time wasted, especially in art and CG (and especially true if your interest/goal is in characters). The real world exposes you to working life issues, team work issues, all of which are important in all the studios big or small.

If your interest lies in human characters, then working also allows you to see many types of humans in their natural context. Observing them and noting things you can apply to your art is also fun (and will help make your work stand out).

P.S.: I'd shelf (not throw away, just shelf) the whole Beyblade thing as you don't own Beyblade and it could be a while before that one can realistically happen.

P.P.S.: The process of discovery and re-discovery, learning and unlearning, is a life-long process. Even the Greeks knew that. All you can do is get used to it... or LOVE to learn everything.

Good luck.
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Last edited by CGIPadawan : 02-19-2014 at 04:55 AM.
 
Old 02-19-2014, 08:47 AM   #4
blackdragonstory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthviper107
Zbrush is a tool that makes things easier for people who know how to model things already, it's not something that makes modeling easier for those that are just getting started. There's workflows to learn like you would with any new program but a lot of it comes down to learned skills like anatomy. The best advice I think for someone trying to learn is to work off reference, try to replicate something that you can easily compare to.

As far as what you should do--these days you can't be a good character artist without knowing a sculpting program like Zbrush or Mudbox. But you also need your foundation in polygonal modeling in a main 3D app like Maya or 3ds Max. As far as drawing goes, you don't need drawing to be a good 3D artist. It doesn't hurt, but if you're starting from scratch on both 3D modeling and drawing, doing more drawing won't make you a better 3D artist. If you think you might like drawing better, consider a job doing something related to that like concept art. There's a large number of areas in art so it's best to find what you like the most and if you work hard you can be very successful.


yes,that's exactly what I think about Zbrush.
I often use reference,but I am mostly modeling cartoon and anime characters.
I know polygon modeling in 3ds max.It's basicly the one I always use for modeling head of characters.
I find it easier to model by using blueprints,but often the one of the references doesnt match to the other.

I found this site http://www.anatomy4sculptors.com/?menu=9&sub=27#body
and thought I would give it a try in learing anatomy but after some time since I was already modeling I thought it's too hard.
I didnt know what approach to take.

There were some people that mentioned that they are studying topology of hands for example.And the approach they used was drawing hands in all angles,poses...
I just thought that for me being able to do that I would have to learn drawing.

Most of professional artists that draw or for example sculp have wacom tablets.
I only had my mouse till I recently got a wacom for myself.
That was also one part why I wasnt doing much in Zbrush or drawing in photoshop.
I could only do textures for my models in photoshop.

The reason I am not sure if I should go drawing or modeling is because what I modeled was always for my beyblade project or helping some of my friends I got from helping in their projects.
While drawing had no importance,just random images.
I think that my imagination isnt that great.

I tried making a concept for a sword,but in 30 minutes I couldnt make any that isnt looking like others I already seen.
I dont know how many time people spend on 1 concept.
But with drawing,I feel like my imagination is starting to grow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan
I understand your predicament.

This feeling that you learn something only to realize the industry is now going elsewhere is extremely common for all 3D artists. I'd argue it's also true of many industries.

Technology has exponentially increased the capacity for progress.

The problem is only minor once you are in the industry, because in a number of occasions the "new methods" are your invention.

The problem is slightly worse for students, because their curriculums may be outdated, or may suddenly change.

And finally this problem is a bit frustrating for self-taught types and hobbyists (you and me) because what we set for ourselves to learn is limited by our experience.

However, I guess that only becomes bad if you view it as a problem. I for one, get frustrated only for 30 seconds, as I am soon overcome by how awesome the new method is and try to adapt to it straight away.

As for not being employed.... You have to take stock of reality. Where do you live? What opportunities exist in the immediate area or time? If you can't get hired as an artist where you live, where could you realistically go first to land that job?

There's nothing saying you cannot do some other job while working towards what you want. Many actors, for example, spend their early working lives as waiters or other low-end work which allows for a lot of off-time so they can pursue what they need to do.

And time spent working in the "real world" is not time wasted, especially in art and CG (and especially true if your interest/goal is in characters). The real world exposes you to working life issues, team work issues, all of which are important in all the studios big or small.

If your interest lies in human characters, then working also allows you to see many types of humans in their natural context. Observing them and noting things you can apply to your art is also fun (and will help make your work stand out).

P.S.: I'd shelf (not throw away, just shelf) the whole Beyblade thing as you don't own Beyblade and it could be a while before that one can realistically happen.

P.P.S.: The process of discovery and re-discovery, learning and unlearning, is a life-long process. Even the Greeks knew that. All you can do is get used to it... or LOVE to learn everything.

Good luck.


Yes,I get frustrated after 50 tries on the same model.
I wont give up on modeling,but I will move to next model.


I live in Croatia in Europe.
We have almost no one even working in game development or such.
As far as I know there are only 3 "companys" in croatia that work on games and such.
They are not big as ubisoft,sony,nintendo or some other from around the world.
One of them is doing only 2D mobile games,one is doing 3D games.
Their recent game was Gas Guzzlers.
That game doesnt have any organic models.
For the third one I dont know which area are they for.

I even thought of opening my own bussines.
For creating 3D games or 3D cartoons.
At first we would be doing comercials,cuz for a game to be created takes 2-5 years even to those world known companys.
But in here,in croatia there are quite a lot of people doing modeling,but we are all self tought people.It's certainly not industry quality.
Most of them are also hobysts,so they dont really seek imployment or would want to waste their time with someone that isnt at least industry level.

Pretty soon I will have to find some job,but It will probably be some low paying job...
Which will just cut my modeling time in half.

I am interested in any kind of characters,but since I am somehow an anime freak/fan/lover....I mostly model anime.(I am still watching anime )

I just remembered.
When I was going to high school,I always walked 3/4 km to hitch a ride to where I was attending high school.
While I was walking I had to walk alone so I was observing how things look.
Road,dirt,signs,cars,trees,buildings...

So I kind of understand what you meant with observing people at work.
But that might be a bit hard for me as a shy person
What can I say,I got lots of problems xD

Here are some links so you can see the game state or my actual modeling skils.
You can judge for yourself at what level I am.

beyblade -- http://www.indiedb.com/games/spinning-heroes2

my profile -- http://www.indiedb.com/members/blackdragonstory

And at my deviantart I got some other images as well.
You can check scraps for those random crapy drawings I did.(I did more,but they are not published)

http://blackdragonstory.deviantart.com/
 
Old 02-19-2014, 09:18 AM   #5
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I very highly recommend against modeling anime stuff, employers don't want to see that stuff in a portfolio unless you're showing drawings to try and get a job in anime.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:50 AM   #6
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You can look at all the disciplines as separate but I like to look at them as one package. If you produce a short game demo it is even worse than the three way split you outlined. Making something like that means sketching, modeling, rigging, texturing, lighting, animating, coding, film editing and web integration (if possible). There is absolutely nothing I have ever learned that I dont use every day now.

I am doing rotoscoping and fx for an independent film, 2d animations for corporate info spots, character modeling and rigging for cartoonists, animation sound tracks and other stuff. Not at all the things I thought I would do but they help me survive and that allows me to work on my games. Each one of these activities is related to things I learned along the way and hobbies I have like music and acting (dont get me drunk at a party). What I am trying to say is if you look at the end product you can do all the things that need doing, learn a lot, and use that knowledge in places you never thought of.

Your concern is only in the situation where you want to do eyebrows for three months at pixar. Even then to get there you will have to know much more than eyebrow animation. Even specialists have more than one trick. Just know there is no cap on how much you can learn and use. Just concentrate on making your game and in the mean time do everything related to your skills to get by.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:51 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthviper107
Zbrush is a tool that makes things easier for people who know how to model things already, it's not something that makes modeling easier for those that are just getting started.....


I agree. A basic knowledge of topology and other things is still needed when the time comes to use your ZBrush model/object in other programs. But as you have 3Ds Max, I would guess you already know that.
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthviper107
I very highly recommend against modeling anime stuff, employers don't want to see that stuff in a portfolio unless you're showing drawings to try and get a job in anime.


If they are making an anime game,then they would most certanly want to see anime models in portfolio.
But I get what you mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanga
You can look at all the disciplines as separate but I like to look at them as one package. If you produce a short game demo it is even worse than the three way split you outlined. Making something like that means sketching, modeling, rigging, texturing, lighting, animating, coding, film editing and web integration (if possible). There is absolutely nothing I have ever learned that I dont use every day now.

I am doing rotoscoping and fx for an independent film, 2d animations for corporate info spots, character modeling and rigging for cartoonists, animation sound tracks and other stuff. Not at all the things I thought I would do but they help me survive and that allows me to work on my games. Each one of these activities is related to things I learned along the way and hobbies I have like music and acting (dont get me drunk at a party). What I am trying to say is if you look at the end product you can do all the things that need doing, learn a lot, and use that knowledge in places you never thought of.

Your concern is only in the situation where you want to do eyebrows for three months at pixar. Even then to get there you will have to know much more than eyebrow animation. Even specialists have more than one trick. Just know there is no cap on how much you can learn and use. Just concentrate on making your game and in the mean time do everything related to your skills to get by.


I am also looking at that as a one package cuz I have to.
For my game development sake and my future in game development if I manage something out I have to learn the whole package.
The problem is that each field in that package is something you need to learn your whole life.
If you want to draw,you got to focus on drawing every day.
The same goes for modeling,programing,animation...

When people are in some company they focus only on their work.
3D modeler does modeling,animator does animation,coder does coding.

When you are entirely focused on one field you can improve much more and faster.
And there is still factor of your own courage to pursue your goals.
If you have support about what you are doing,then you can see things clearly.
It becomes easier a bit and you dont start losing hope that you will one day achieve what you are after.

I didnt have support from my family.
They wanted me to be an engineer for electronics.
I found a glimse of hope in my game fans and those people I helped in game development with my modeling.

I will try to model normal characters and other non anime.
Yesterday I modeled a sword.

I belive that I know some of the anatomy,but not from actually learning it,but by remembering from tutorials when people modeled their models.
So I should probably try to actually get that knowledge fully,but I dont know a way of doing it.
Do I just start by modeling body parts one by one?
Do I draw them?
Sculpt them?
 
Old 02-20-2014, 09:03 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdragonstory
If they are making an anime game,then they would most certanly want to see anime models in portfolio.
But I get what you mean.


There's almost no games that are anime, and most of the ones that are are 2D
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthviper107
There's almost no games that are anime, and most of the ones that are are 2D


There are quite a lot of anime games out there.
Dragonball,Naruto,Bleach,One Piece,Beyblade...
There are also cartoon games as well.
Pokemon,Ben10,Futurama,Simpsons...

This were all made in to 3D games.
Each anime and cartoon can have it's own game and there are a lot of people that are watching anime and cartoons so that means they would play it as well.

Anways I wanted to show you that sword I was talking about.
Handle and shield are still wip,but the blade is finished.
I made a short turnaround gif image in KeyShot 4.
Take a look

 
Old 02-20-2014, 03:13 PM   #11
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I would definitely agree there are some anime games out there.

But I would also agree with the overall point that if you 'specialize' yourself
too much in anime you will be painting yourself into a corner career wise.
A nearly empty corner.

If you really want an expanded portfolio that is marketable across a broader range of employers-focus on more diversity ASAP. A few studios have dabbled in anime. True. But not many are doing 'exclusively anime games'.

Broaden your horizons. Or stay a hobbyist.
 
Old 02-22-2014, 09:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by circusboy
I would definitely agree there are some anime games out there.

But I would also agree with the overall point that if you 'specialize' yourself
too much in anime you will be painting yourself into a corner career wise.
A nearly empty corner.

If you really want an expanded portfolio that is marketable across a broader range of employers-focus on more diversity ASAP. A few studios have dabbled in anime. True. But not many are doing 'exclusively anime games'.

Broaden your horizons. Or stay a hobbyist.


I will do my best in making other models than anime.
This might have been one thing that slowed down my improvement.

I am starting to think that if you first learn human modeling you can easily figure out anime characters.
But if you start by anime,you cant go that easily to human characters.
 
Old 02-22-2014, 06:46 PM   #13
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Fundamentals!

Anatomy, proportion, motion, etc. Study these in excruciating detail. Recreate from real life whenever possible.

When you understand the fundamentals it becomes much easier to jump in and out of different styles, be it anime or disney.

Look at ANY famous Manga / Anime artist, if you can get a hold of their own personal work books, you would see it filled with pages and pages of real life study. For instance, Akira Toriyama, look at alot of his different Manga, Dr. Slump in particular, he jumps through a bunch of different styles at will, from super realistic, to over simplified, through to his classic Toriyama style.

Fundamentals are absolutely EVERYTHING.

And don't think this applies just to humans, creatures, etc. This applies to everything you want to create. Sure we may have a vague idea or impression of what a hammer is supposed to look like, but do you think you could recreate one without reference? Even something as simple as a baseball bat, you'd be surprised at what the taper on it actually looks like.

Anyhoo. Regarding the OPs original post, don't limit yourself to one medium. They will all help you in the end, they might feel like a chore right now, since you may or may not be in that phase where nothing you make seems to come out right, but you just need to persevere. Practice is God to an artist, and unless you have faith you ain't goin' nowhere.

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Old 02-23-2014, 01:32 AM   #14
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Yep, it's all about the important foundations of visual art. The number one mistake aspiring 3D artists make, is they don't realize they are first and foremost visual artists and must learn the foundation knowledge, and the medium they choose to work in is secondary, as are the tools they use.

You might want to read this thread about why 3D artists are often told learning to draw can really help them excel, as well as what you need to learn even if you don't learn to draw proficiently: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr...f=166&t=1028244

Last edited by Lunatique : 02-23-2014 at 01:41 AM.
 
Old 02-23-2014, 02:23 PM   #15
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Can you be awesome character artist without drawing?
How is the best way to learn Anatomy?
 
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