Can I use real car design in commercial application?

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Old 11 November 2013   #1
Can I use real car design in commercial application?

Hi.
Can I use for example BMW design in my cartoon that I will later sell?
I am not making a real car or replica it will be 3d.

If not can I remove BMW symbol and use it?

if not can I modify their design just a little bit and use it?

And if not: How Turbosquid sells 3d models of real cars and make profit off their designs?
How people videotape real vehicle at work and sell as DVDs, etc



Thank you

Last edited by dvieneira : 11 November 2013 at 04:29 PM.
 
Old 11 November 2013   #2
If I were you I'd model it after a known car that you really like.
Make it clear to yourself why you like that particular design. Push the elements you like (depending how toony it is) so it is no longer exactly the same, but still has the elements you like.

And stay clear of real logo's.

That should be pretty safe
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Old 11 November 2013   #3
In movies it's probably a paid advertisement, in videos they probably just aren't important enough for them to care. The logos are of course copyrighted, the designs as well, but if you change the design a bit I think it works (like GTA has cars that are similar to real cars).
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Old 11 November 2013   #4
They'll let you know if they have a problem with it, especially if you are getting lots of exposure and $$..

The t-shirt guys dump the logos and make small changes, especially in the design details like headlights, grills, etc.

The corporate counsel is still figuring out how to deal with the 3d modeling sites, but have dealt with the individuals and companies that sell works with their automotive info. I'm not sure what the game industry pays, but I do know the t-shirt monguls pay fixed fee every year plus a royalty that has to reach a specific amount each quarter to qualify them to continue to license the rights to sell images with the manufacturers IP on it.

The work around is if you are creating something for educational purpose (not for resell or profit) and if you are creating one-offs (not to exceed 200 units). However, you would still be risking attorney fees to enforce that once you are taken to court.

Tiger Woods lost a case to an artist several years ago. However, Woods' attorneys killed the artist financially in court over a 5.5 year period.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/danie..._b_1243905.html

when dealing with "deep pocket" individuals or companies, they don't have to win, they just have to exhaust you financially to show who has the real power. In the end, it may be cheaper to pay the license fees rather than the attorney and court fees.

Last edited by XLNT-3d : 11 November 2013 at 09:47 PM.
 
Old 11 November 2013   #5
We have bought 3D car models from online sites to use in advertising for the actual manufacturer.

But steer clear from making a product you sell using their brand.
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Old 11 November 2013   #6
I think you need to read more into movies and films to find the answer, but since you mentioned cartoon, you should be in the clear. I think its fall under fair use.

I am not a lawyer. But like I said, film and movies have been here long enough there should be a law and / or caveat about this matter.

Movies and films have cars all the time. Parked, moving, etc.

I read about Real Steel. Bing was paid advertisement (or was it xbox?) but they ASK permission so that dakota character can drink Dr. Pepper and have the cans on the table. So Dr Pepper get a free advertising just because someone on the set loves Dr Pepper and have the cans around. I don't know why they contact Dr. Pepper. Maybe they though DrP might pay for advertising? Or what? Or if DrP said no, then they have to use other brand soft drink?

In short, you really need to do your homework here. Might even read a full book on it, if you are serious in this line of work.

http://www.artslaw.com.au/info-shee...oducts-in-film/

http://www.legalteamusa.net/tactica...out-permission/

http://www.rightsofwriters.com/2010...ucts-in-my.html

Can't answer more, because you are not specific enough.
 
Old 11 November 2013   #7
Originally Posted by XLNT-3d: They'll let you know if they have a problem with it, especially if you are getting lots of exposure and $$..

The t-shirt guys dump the logos and make small changes, especially in the design details like headlights, grills, etc.

The corporate counsel is still figuring out how to deal with the 3d modeling sites, but have dealt with the individuals and companies that sell works with their automotive info. I'm not sure what the game industry pays, but I do know the t-shirt monguls pay fixed fee every year plus a royalty that has to reach a specific amount each quarter to qualify them to continue to license the rights to sell images with the manufacturers IP on it.

The work around is if you are creating something for educational purpose (not for resell or profit) and if you are creating one-offs (not to exceed 200 units). However, you would still be risking attorney fees to enforce that once you are taken to court.

Tiger Woods lost a case to an artist several years ago. However, Woods' attorneys killed the artist financially in court over a 5.5 year period.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/danie..._b_1243905.html

when dealing with "deep pocket" individuals or companies, they don't have to win, they just have to exhaust you financially to show who has the real power. In the end, it may be cheaper to pay the license fees rather than the attorney and court fees.

This is the reason that in reality contracts dont mean a damn thing. You should have a contract but it really is survival of the richest. This is applicable to all laws involving imaging. This is the best answer you will get.
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Old 11 November 2013   #8
THanks a lot!

I wonder how GTA 5 did it. All the changed was a logo
 
Old 11 November 2013   #9
Originally Posted by dvieneira: I wonder how GTA 5 did it. All the changed was a logo


You probably find they changed more than that. Sure, you can see what the each car and bike is based on, but you may well find that there are a lot more changes made than initially meets the eye.
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Old 11 November 2013   #10
Originally Posted by leigh: You probably find they changed more than that. Sure, you can see what the each car and bike is based on, but you may well find that there are a lot more changes made than initially meets the eye.


Yes that's true in GTA 5 of the motorcycles at least. The Faggio by Pegassi is based on a Piaggio/Vespa scoot. The Bati 801 and 801RR by Pegassi are based on the Ducati 848 and 1199 race reps.
At first glance the overall form looks like a real manufacturer bike but closer inspection (actually not even all that close) shows many differences and parts omitted from the game bikes.
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Old 11 November 2013   #11
even the likeness game is a risky business. I've worked on cases where the manufacturer had to prove that the design was a derivative or their IP and based on their design.

Although, word on the street in the litigation industry concerning IP is that it is dropping off. So maybe we'll start seeing a loosing of the grips from major manufacturers.
 
Old 11 November 2013   #12
Found this from another forum whatch the video at 11:30

Skip to 11:10, the comment is at 11:30.

http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_bl..._cultur e.html

In essence, she claims that a car's sculptural design cannot be copyrighted. I know about many replica makers that have been sued into bankruptcy, which would seem to contradict this.
 
Old 11 November 2013   #13
Originally Posted by dvieneira: Skip to 11:10, the comment is at 11:30.

http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_bl..._cultur e.html

In essence, she claims that a car's sculptural design cannot be copyrighted. I know about many replica makers that have been sued into bankruptcy, which would seem to contradict this.

Thanks for the headsup~
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Old 11 November 2013   #14
Originally Posted by dvieneira: Skip to 11:10, the comment is at 11:30.

http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_bl..._cultur e.html

In essence, she claims that a car's sculptural design cannot be copyrighted. I know about many replica makers that have been sued into bankruptcy, which would seem to contradict this.

All good and well but who has the resources to fight a legal battle with a car company..
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Old 11 November 2013   #15
Originally Posted by Kabab: All good and well but who has the resources to fight a legal battle with a car company..


exactly. They already went heavy against all the t-shirt printers many years ago. You couldn't even print a shirt with a close up of the headlight or tail light area. I'm talking about 1950s and 60s vehicles. No logos either. The racing people got off a little easier because their cars are so heavily modified.

The aircraft manufactures will send you a cease and desist letter as well. It's up to you how much you want to buck and kick, but in the end, deep pockets will win. In the US, if they get the feds on their side, they'll show up at your place and confiscate everything with their IP on it. They can even get a court order to confiscate your computer and go through your hard drives. You'll get the computer back eventually (when its useless). That's been done as well.

Maybe one day an infinitely wealthy philanthropist will come along and help artists "Stick it to da man!"

Last edited by XLNT-3d : 11 November 2013 at 10:05 PM.
 
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