Windows 8

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Old 10 October 2013   #61
A colleague of mine who runs one of the latest Mac's updated his Mac to whatever the latest version of OSX is called, the update failed and he was forced to to a clean installation and reinstall all of his software again. No backupsystem helped him so no, just because you run OSX you are not safe from reinstallation of your system no matter what Apple claims.

/ Magnus
 
Old 10 October 2013   #62
Quote: And Windows 8 to 8.1 is a joke, it's nothing more than a service pack. So why isn't it possible to update from 7 to 8.1? It makes no sense to me.


8 to 8.1 doesn't require you to reinstall anything. The only exception is if you had one of the beta versions of 8.1 installed, or if you're installing from an iso, which they've stated clearly all along.
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Old 10 October 2013   #63
Originally Posted by tswalk: I must be sleeping under a rock... where is such OS that allows random reinstallations of itself while keeping application configurations and installations in tack?.


There was an OS like that called IRIX (Any unix/linux should also work like this).
I used IRIX when I started working with 3D applications, which was more then 20 years ago.
Once I was with client and had to reinstall OS. But I was back on track in half an hour.
All data, programs, everything still there.
You must see the advantage of that.
I've been asking for that for only 20 years and windows still doesn't deliver.
And all the stories of windows restore, most of the times don't work.
Same with windows image, repair and so on.
Why so many people still use XP ?
I use paragon tools to make image of OS, this does work every time.


Als
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VFX rule no. 387
# Just redo it!

 
Old 10 October 2013   #64
I'm starting to think that basically people are just accepting the Metro UI because Windows has the best price to compatibility with apps options they need and the only other option is the ultra expensive Mac OSX and Linux is dicey for general purpose computing and lacks some apps people need.

Even if I can't afford OSX I'm not just going to accept some ill-conceived OS UI because there aren't any other "Up to Date" realistic alternatives.
 
Old 10 October 2013   #65
I wouldn't call Metro ill-conceived. It's not perfect, but it's a positive step forward, and fills a need in the market. Touch enabled devices lacked a solid desktop oriented platform. The desktop metaphor is a time tested way of getting work done. Just because there are new kinds of workflows, it doesn't mean we through out what worked. I don't think there are any professionals out there that want to use a touch device 12 hours a day like they use a desktop.

PC sales were already slipping before Windows 8 shipped. I wouldn't blame 8 for that. The PC Market needed new technology and 8 was a needed step towards it. New devices to use it did not materialize last year. Even now they are trickling in. But look at the amazing things that have come along because of it. Tablets that can run Photoshop with built in pressure support. Lightwave runs like a champ on my 1 ghz 4 core AMD 1450 at 25 watts. We have GPU powered computing coming to to tablets.

Microsoft set out to enable touch support for Windows without throwing out their existing customer base. Such an OS would allow users to use touch enabled software, and also work with their time-tested, reliable productivity software.

The metro api is much different than just a desktop api with a single screen interface. Metro apps are more like cell phone apps designed to work with minimal system resources. Apps can be removed from memory at any time to free up resources for other things.

Metro apps are conceptually supposed to do just 1 thing and do it very well. Desktop applications on the other hand may have thousands of functions, use gigs of ram, virtual ram, hard drive space, and etc.

Microsoft chose to make apps available only through the Microsoft store, much like Apple did with their touch OS. It seems like Microsoft gets condemned for all the same things that apple is praised for. Anyway.

Now, all that being said, it's just their 1ar major iteration of the OS, with one minor revision. What version is Ios at? Window's 8 is not perfect. They've made a mighty leap, and now they have to figure out what works and what doesn't, and what they want to focus on and how to make it more usable for their users. Yes they're a little slow getting into the game (they are Microsoft) but they are getting more aggressive in their product updates.
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Old 10 October 2013   #66
Originally Posted by PhilipeaNguyen: I'm starting to think that basically people are just accepting the Metro UI because Windows has the best price to compatibility with apps options they need and the only other option is the ultra expensive Mac OSX and Linux is dicey for general purpose computing and lacks some apps people need.

Even if I can't afford OSX I'm not just going to accept some ill-conceived OS UI because there aren't any other "Up to Date" realistic alternatives.


I planned to write a long story, then I realized that I'm in the cg forum, and not at other forum I frequent in.

- yeah, cg software is pretty spotty when it come to Linux. Modo is there with 701, though. MAX is Win only.
- My own problem was Office file format. Office can be installed under Wine, but the font doesn't look right (2010). I don't know if it my fault or what. And open source office still unable to load word (even 2003 format) right.
- as for general purpose, my laptop uses Ubuntu 13.04. I don't use Unity as I use other windowing system. But I think it's okay.

Since Modo is now linux compatible and I do plan to upgrade next year, I think my desktop PC is going to be Linux Mint. But I will install Window and Office in a VM because I know that is still important.
 
Old 10 October 2013   #67
Originally Posted by ctguitars: Im bemused by the hate for Windows 8.

Is it just a resistence to change that disrupts workflow? Is it a resistence to learning something new and not wanting to spend time on same? In other wise if I dont see how it works straight away out of the box .. dump it?



I find it weird that people keep throwing this around. "If you don't like this OS you must be resistant to change" or "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" and "people are afraid of change" and so on.

Especially with tech people or here on cg forums. I mean we learn super complicated programs like Max or Maya but here comes a new OS which is basically like the old one with a few stuff shifted around, some improvements and some awkward stuff - and if we don't like it that means we are unable to adapt and "afraid of change". Hah !

Give that same man a new program or new plugin renderer with some real and clear improvement like 20 x speed or a much easier and intuitive modeling and you will see he will not reject it even if the app is completely different and much more difficult to learn.

This happened with the first iphone and ios. The only problem was the price (that's why it wasn't a wider adoption). When something is genuinely good and intuitive there's no "resistance to change".
 
Old 10 October 2013   #68
The negativity about Windows 8 has been so strong and unbalanced, that I tend to defend the good points about it. But this OS stuff is complicated, and there are a lot of people using it who have nothing to do with our little industries, so it's going to change in ways we don't want or understand why sometimes. As a software developer, I've been in on more of the technical details of how and why they've made the changes they have, and often agree with them in the long run.
But can't we take the high ground when new technologies come out. Weren't we the very people who were persecuted back in the day when computers were considered satanic. When asked what we wanted to do for a living and we said "make movies" we got that look, and they said "Well, you can't."
Can't we decide to support others and not attack them if they use one product or another. Can't we decide what we like and tell of it's virtues without tearing others apart? Or do we want to be the ones who tell others, "No, you can't."
Love isn't character assassination based on technological preference.
Please, when something doesn't work the way we want (and it's frustrating) let's take a deep breath (and I"m the king of sinners here) and not rip each other apart.
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Old 10 October 2013   #69
Originally Posted by sebastian___: Give that same man a new program or new plugin renderer with some real and clear improvement like 20 x speed or a much easier and intuitive modeling and you will see he will not reject it even if the app is completely different and much more difficult to learn.

This happened with the first iphone and ios. The only problem was the price (that's why it wasn't a wider adoption). When something is genuinely good and intuitive there's no "resistance to change".


There are very clear improvements in terms of better multicore management (ie: Battlefield 4 has up to %60 better performance under win 8 compared to win 7 on the same system.) , much better ram usage, faster start up, better system tools and many others. I am sorry but if someone is too stupid to spend five minutes setting up windows 8 to work the way so it is indistinguishable from windows 7 in daily usage it is their problem, not Microsoft's. You don't need to see the start screen if you don't want to once you set it up to boot to windows and install classic shell which is free and gives you your start button back.

It seems the people who write it off after using it for 10 minutes are the people who went into it with the "I am going to hate this no matter what" attitude. Every software I use runs better and faster under Win 8 than it did in Win 7.
 
Old 10 October 2013   #70
The negativity comes because of so many problems which are not addresed and insted we are just debating about nonsense and not important issues like metro or not, instead of debating the OS itself.
How much programing hours are spent on transparent windows and those sort of issues, when more important issues are not addressed.

SKIP if you are in hurry
Copying files is so silly and requires user to be present.
There is no sync options, compare directories etc. BASIC STUFF!
Any serious user is still using Total Comander, from the dos days.
Any decent hacker has more control over your own PC then avarage user in administrator mode.
Every in depth stuff is so stupid and over complicated.
You can't backup registry in any sensible manner.
I have 10 svchost.exe files running, which is ideal way for any hacker to do what ever they like without avarage user seeing what is really going on.
Security is still huge issue even with a best security packages.
Search is still horible and it doesn't work as it should.
Prefetch and superfetch make a mess and makes things even more complicated, not to mention that it doesn't recognize SSD's.
And so on and so on...
And still most important, when something goes wrong, the advice is to reinstall, which is just not an option.
There is long long list of issues that there are simply no solutions.
Who cares how the interface design looks like?
There are third party applications which solve many of the problems, but still main issue remains, and that is that without internet, you can't use your machine, and the moment you are on internet, you are vulnerable.
I don't like Mac OS more then windows, but on the other hand they just USE the machine, not waste the time with viruses, malware and so on.
If I didn't invest so much in various software for windows, I wouldn't use it. The only reason is the legacy of software.

CONTINUE HERE
OS should be separated from the rest of the programs. As simple as that.
I should be able at any point to backup and restore just OS and then I will be happy.
All other issues are minor comparing to this one.
Restore option is a joke, since works sequentially and very often doesn't work.
It's overly complicated and very often stupid and ilogical.
Windows could be best OS, but it's still not.


Als
__________________
"No Bucks, NO Buck Rogers!"

VFX rule no. 387
# Just redo it!

 
Old 10 October 2013   #71
Originally Posted by Als: The negativity comes because of so many problems which are not addresed and insted we are just debating about nonsense and not important issues like metro or not, instead of debating the OS itself.
How much programing hours are spent on transparent windows and those sort of issues, when more important issues are not addressed.

SKIP if you are in hurry
Copying files is so silly and requires user to be present.
There is no sync options, compare directories etc. BASIC STUFF!
Any serious user is still using Total Comander, from the dos days.
Any decent hacker has more control over your own PC then avarage user in administrator mode.
Every in depth stuff is so stupid and over complicated.
You can't backup registry in any sensible manner.
I have 10 svchost.exe files running, which is ideal way for any hacker to do what ever they like without avarage user seeing what is really going on.
Security is still huge issue even with a best security packages.
Search is still horible and it doesn't work as it should.
Prefetch and superfetch make a mess and makes things even more complicated, not to mention that it doesn't recognize SSD's.
And so on and so on...
And still most important, when something goes wrong, the advice is to reinstall, which is just not an option.
There is long long list of issues that there are simply no solutions.
Who cares how the interface design looks like?
There are third party applications which solve many of the problems, but still main issue remains, and that is that without internet, you can't use your machine, and the moment you are on internet, you are vulnerable.
I don't like Mac OS more then windows, but on the other hand they just USE the machine, not waste the time with viruses, malware and so on.
If I didn't invest so much in various software for windows, I wouldn't use it. The only reason is the legacy of software.

CONTINUE HERE
OS should be separated from the rest of the programs. As simple as that.
I should be able at any point to backup and restore just OS and then I will be happy.
All other issues are minor comparing to this one.
Restore option is a joke, since works sequentially and very often doesn't work.
It's overly complicated and very often stupid and ilogical.
Windows could be best OS, but it's still not.


Als


You are right OSX is just more secure an....oh wait

http://www.dailytech.com/Apples+OS+...rticle21097.htm

This happens pretty much yearly btw.

Everything you complain about is solved in a matter of minutes with free third party apps. I am not seeing this "You are dead the second your computer touches the internet!" tinfoil hat stuff either. Do you go on a warez/porn site the second you boot into a new os or something?

Last edited by SheepFactory : 10 October 2013 at 04:39 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2013   #72
Originally Posted by SheepFactory: It seems the people who write it off after using it for 10 minutes are the people who went into it with the "I am going to hate this no matter what" attitude. Every software I use runs better and faster under Win 8 than it did in Win 7.


There isn't that much of a difference, it's a bit smoother.
What's frustrating for me is that every change that matters for me (interface) is for the worse.
I was a huge fan of Windows 7 and I had high hopes for further development. I wouldn't have thought that I was going to be jealous with OSX users, I always thought OSX is less efficient in workflow than Windows, but now it's the exact opposite. OSX keeps improving and Windows is becoming a mess.
I don't believe anyone who tells me with a straight face that's in an improvement.
I was buying Windows 8 Professional(!) and what I get is random full screen xbox ads.
I'm talking about the UI direction and the SPAM, not about kernel stuff, which is solid of course.
Yeah, I was able to turn it into Windows 7 (almost) with a bunch of tweaks. There is still some stilly stuff popping up I don't know how to stop, but OK.
It's just sad to see how Microsoft lost it.
 
Old 10 October 2013   #73
Originally Posted by SheepFactory: It seems the people who write it off after using it for 10 minutes are the people who went into it with the "I am going to hate this no matter what" attitude. Every software I use runs better and faster under Win 8 than it did in Win 7.


Kind of like the attitude you had in the new Mac Pro thread. Except for 10 minutes, you spent a grand total of.... 0 minutes with it.

Practice what you preach Mr. Tezel.
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Old 10 October 2013   #74
I liked how these threads always percolate into an OS comparison between Mac and Windows... bleh!

This must be a human bias thing that will never go away.
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Old 10 October 2013   #75
To anyone considering it, just buy Windows 8 and give it a try for yourself. Or get a virtual image of it to try. Opinions posted in this thread are very subjective and moot.
 
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