CGTalk > Main > General Discussion > Legacy Threads
Login register
reply share thread « Previous Thread | Next Thread »
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-29-2013, 07:20 PM   #16
Crotalis
Expert
portfolio
Jason
Designer
upper uncton ..., USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 439
Quote:
Absolutely, I agree with that latest post of yours 100%.


I double that agreement. Very well said!
 
Old 08-29-2013, 09:27 PM   #17
rownd
In a blanket fort
 
rownd's Avatar
portfolio
Jim Rownd
illustrator
Rochester, USA
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 366
Thank you dc. I occasionally have high school students in and I have no idea on what kind of advice I should be giving them. My background is advertising/marketing and thats a tough one to break into (as an artist). So I'm always pointing them toward cg. Your post is one of the things I see as a must read.
 
Old 08-29-2013, 10:43 PM   #18
ntmonkey
Level 1 Ninja
 
ntmonkey's Avatar
portfolio
Meng Yang Lu
3D Operator
The Mill LA
USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,388
Send a message via MSN to ntmonkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by rownd
Thank you dc. I occasionally have high school students in and I have no idea on what kind of advice I should be giving them. My background is advertising/marketing and thats a tough one to break into (as an artist). So I'm always pointing them toward cg. Your post is one of the things I see as a must read.


Continue teaching them the skills you think they need to survive as an artist. Advise them to have some business savvy so they know the basics to protect themselves. Don't discourage. We need new talent and fresh eyes now more than ever. By enabling them to have the skills to simply survive they may be the ones to come up with a new model that saves us all. At the end of the day, what we do as artists is still incredibly valuable.

While everyone is trying to find ways to marginalize our value for the sake of profit, we can figure out another means to monetize our skills. Just because the industry is going through rough times doesn't mean we have to play directly into their hands that results in an endless grind for low pay. The minute you come up with an idea that is fair to artists and the audience, you'll immediately attract the most talented and that will lead to having a superior product.

Like Joe said, many feel that they were the chosen few, free to do whatever with little competition. However, the top tier talents are still highly sought after. Our juniors have just as good input of fresh ideas as our experienced senior artists. Acknowledging that contribution has allowed us to move forward in ways we wouldn't have before.

Best,

-Lu
__________________
Meng Yang Lu
3D Generalist
 
Old 08-29-2013, 11:07 PM   #19
Calabi
Frequenter
 
Calabi's Avatar
portfolio
Wobbleyou
London, United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 148
In the digital age its really stupid forcing people to move around all over the place.
 
Old 08-31-2013, 08:37 PM   #20
-dc-
Know-it-All
 
-dc-'s Avatar
Joe
Visual Effects Supervisor
Los Angeles, USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calabi
In the digital age its really stupid forcing people to move around all over the place.


I'm not sure whether you're insinuating that people should be allowed to work remotely or that people should be allowed to work from one central location and stop moving.

Either way, both will never fully happen.

People are already working in a cloud environment. One company I did some work for in the past, Articulate (website here), worked only in the cloud with no physical offices. They are very profitable and their business model has been well received and reviewed. Check out a podcast about them here .

Could that model work for creating feature film visual effects and feature animated films? On a much smaller scale (like a short) it could work out just fine for everyone. There are risks with being online, but they have been mitigated over the years. The real risk is productivity of workers. Without a controlled environment, it is difficult to ascertain employee productivity up and down the board.

Also, for the film industry, they are hesitant to take such large financial risks working in such a model. They also directly benefit by subsidized labor being in a particular location, so the idea of working remotely or in the cloud would be problematic for incentives.

The movie studios are not interested in the cheapest/most efficient approaches. They are setup to mitigate as much risk as possible. They rent cameras, lights, lenses, hire third party vendors and keep very few people on staff. Rentals are expensive. So is paying third party vendors. When I worked at Uncharted Territory (briefly), it was well documented how much money we could save Sony by doing the VFX work internally as opposed to going to vendors to complete the shots. Even in Los Angeles, one of the most expensive markets where artists are typically highly paid, it was still coming out cheaper.

The problem is the studios simply do not wish to take on that responsibility and overhead. Even if it is cheaper, they don't like it.

For original IP creators like Pixar, or video game companies, they may allow some form of remote work in the future, but I also highly doubt that too. I would go over to Pixar to eat lunch every once in awhile with friends when I worked down the street at Tippett. Pixar has one of the most conducive environments to creativity that I have ever seen anywhere. The employees were happy and well taken care of, yet some of them weren't highly paid compared to VFX. Some game companies have similar vibes. To lose that intangible feeling by allowing people to work from home or in small groups would likely cost more than can be measured financially on any scale.

Creative people need to be around each other to thrive. I strongly believe that.
__________________
IMDB
 
Old 08-31-2013, 09:23 PM   #21
sentry66
Expert
 
sentry66's Avatar
portfolio
node crazy
USA
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,106
I think it's a good practice to be open to different types of CG work and be willing to explore the creativity within each branching field. Once you're willing to give other fields a chance, they can be quite creative and rewarding in their own ways.

Is it really the utmost importance that you work for hollywood FX or video game studios for the fame or would you be content being a super-hero employee at a tiny studio doing something along the lines of scientific, medical, or educational animation production work?
 
Old 08-31-2013, 11:18 PM   #22
leigh
blahblah
 
leigh's Avatar
CGSociety Staff
portfolio
Leigh van der Byl
A cog in the wheel
Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 29,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentry66
Is it really the utmost importance that you work for hollywood FX or video game studios for the fame or would you be content being a super-hero employee at a tiny studio doing something along the lines of scientific, medical, or educational animation production work?


Fame? What fame? I work in film because I enjoy the actual work, not because I think it's going to somehow make me famous. I'd get bored shitless doing something like medical animation; I'm not interested in it in the slightest. Environments and creatures and stuff are immensely more fun and satisfying for me.

Do you really, honestly enjoy your job? If you do, you'd be the first person I've ever come across that actually genuinely enjoys doing medical animation.
__________________
leighvanderbyl.com
 
Old 09-02-2013, 06:48 AM   #23
MikeRhone
Mind taker
 
MikeRhone's Avatar
portfolio
Mike Rhone
21st level Ninja
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,179
A great write-up Joe! It's good to see a level headed opinion on the state of the industry.
__________________
Mike Rhone
-VFX Artist-

Dust Rig - tutorial for Maya

Tonga the Fox - Free cartoony rig for Maya!
 
Old 09-02-2013, 07:21 AM   #24
sentry66
Expert
 
sentry66's Avatar
portfolio
node crazy
USA
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
Fame? What fame? I work in film because I enjoy the actual work, not because I think it's going to somehow make me famous. I'd get bored shitless doing something like medical animation; I'm not interested in it in the slightest. Environments and creatures and stuff are immensely more fun and satisfying for me.

Do you really, honestly enjoy your job? If you do, you'd be the first person I've ever come across that actually genuinely enjoys doing medical animation.



Medical or scientific animation obviously isn't for everyone, but this is exactly the resistance towards other fields I was talking about. You mentioned you like creating environments, yet scientific and medical animation work have a vast array of environments. They're every bit a natural environment as a forest or mountain range.


I do enjoy my job and the other medical animators I've met and worked with do as well. We have a natural fascination with biology, physics, and science. There's a lot of satisfaction that comes with creating training material for doctors and med students that no one else has made because it isn't yet well understood around the world, not to mention being on the cutting edge of the scientific community.
 
Old 09-02-2013, 07:53 AM   #25
Novakog
Lord of the posts
 
Novakog's Avatar
portfolio
Andrew Helmer
Software Engineer
Google
USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 813
Very good write-up, but I do want to nitpick one thing, because AFAICT it's factually incorrect:

Quote:
In the entertainment industry in particular, the studios are making less films and therefore there are less visual effects that need to be done.


I think studios are actually making pretty much the same amount of films they've always made, or slightly more. BoxOfficeMojo as a source. CPI adjusted box office gross I think is slightly lower, but hardly at all, and I'm guessing that the VFX-heavy films take a much much higher share of the total annual gross than they used to. Not that it affects most of the substance of this post.
__________________
If someone offers a penny for your thoughts, and you give them your two cents, where does the other penny go?

Last edited by Novakog : 09-02-2013 at 07:56 AM.
 
Old 09-02-2013, 08:17 AM   #26
leigh
blahblah
 
leigh's Avatar
CGSociety Staff
portfolio
Leigh van der Byl
A cog in the wheel
Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 29,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentry66
Medical or scientific animation obviously isn't for everyone, but this is exactly the resistance towards other fields I was talking about. You mentioned you like creating environments, yet scientific and medical animation work have a vast array of environments. They're every bit a natural environment as a forest or mountain range.


Except surely it should be obvious that when I say I like environments, it's because I like working with weathering, dirt, damage, and other kinds of detailing along those lines - something that couldn't really be further along the spectrum from what you're working with. As a texture painter, medical and scientific animation offers absolutely zero appeal.

If you want to call that "resistance towards other fields" then go ahead. I call it knowing what I enjoy and sticking with it, because enjoyment of my job is absolutely paramount.
__________________
leighvanderbyl.com
 
Old 09-02-2013, 08:43 AM   #27
CGIPadawan
Part-Time Blenderite
 
CGIPadawan's Avatar
Giancarlo Ng
Quezon City, Philippines
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,909
Send a message via Yahoo to CGIPadawan
Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
Except surely it should be obvious that when I say I like environments, it's because I like working with weathering, dirt, damage, and other kinds of detailing along those lines - something that couldn't really be further along the spectrum from what you're working with. As a texture painter, medical and scientific animation offers absolutely zero appeal.

If you want to call that "resistance towards other fields" then go ahead. I call it knowing what I enjoy and sticking with it, because enjoyment of my job is absolutely paramount.


Maybe he's like.. you know.. a real life Dr. Egon Spengler.
__________________
"Your most creative work is pre-production, once the film is in production, demands on time force you to produce rather than create."
REVERSION
 
Old 09-02-2013, 08:56 AM   #28
sentry66
Expert
 
sentry66's Avatar
portfolio
node crazy
USA
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
Except surely it should be obvious that when I say I like environments, it's because I like working with weathering, dirt, damage, and other kinds of detailing along those lines - something that couldn't really be further along the spectrum from what you're working with. As a texture painter, medical and scientific animation offers absolutely zero appeal.

If you want to call that "resistance towards other fields" then go ahead. I call it knowing what I enjoy and sticking with it, because enjoyment of my job is absolutely paramount.



You know, that's a really good point in regards to texture painting. Most scientific CG work cares more about having a clear and clean aesthetic. The point usually is to take something that is visually complicated and reduce detail to make it easy to read.

One of the first things I had to learn when doing medical CG work was to tone the textures down because when they look too realistic, they get distracting and can even make the imagery dirty or cluttered looking for the message its trying to get across.

I had to learn how to create textures that were more hyper-real to still get certain details across, while doing it in a minimal way to not be distracting or gruesome looking - which the target audience almost never wants.
 
Old 09-02-2013, 10:50 AM   #29
leigh
blahblah
 
leigh's Avatar
CGSociety Staff
portfolio
Leigh van der Byl
A cog in the wheel
Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 29,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentry66
You know, that's a really good point in regards to texture painting. Most scientific CG work cares more about having a clear and clean aesthetic. The point usually is to take something that is visually complicated and reduce detail to make it easy to read.

One of the first things I had to learn when doing medical CG work was to tone the textures down because when they look too realistic, they get distracting and can even make the imagery dirty or cluttered looking for the message its trying to get across.

I had to learn how to create textures that were more hyper-real to still get certain details across, while doing it in a minimal way to not be distracting or gruesome looking - which the target audience almost never wants.


Exactly. I can totally understand why medical and scientific CG requires that aesthetic, but for me it'd be too frustrating to have to hold back my "put dirty details into everything" mindset. My favourite thing about texturing has always been the dirty little details, and getting really stuck into creating idiosyncratic detailing for everything. It's what I love most about my job, and hence why visual effects has always been my field of choice.
__________________
leighvanderbyl.com
 
Old 09-02-2013, 11:48 AM   #30
kelgy
Stranger in Town
 
kelgy's Avatar
portfolio
Kel G
Professionally unemployed
Surrey, Canada
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novakog


I think studios are actually making pretty much the same amount of films they've always made, or slightly more. BoxOfficeMojo as a source.


I'd like to know what method and sources they use to make calculations on the number of films and whether they are only counting the major studios. I know there used to be a number of mid level and smaller studios that got absorbed or disbanded by the 90s and they usually specialized in genre films more so than the major studios do. But many of those films probably didnt get wide release which appears to be their standard for inclusion.

They have 173 films listed for 1981 and then 428 for 1982. What happened between those years to account for such a jump?

The impression I get is that major studios make more genre films (that require fx work) than they did prior to 1980, but overall its less when the smaller studios are added to the equation.It sure feels like less based on legacy and reputation of films.
Just for the horror genre it looks like a big drop when lists are made for the 70s or 80s compared to the 2000s.



 
reply share thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.