artists with depression?

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Old 07 July 2013   #46
Originally Posted by leigh: Because actually, yes, sometimes you are - conditions like bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and others are conditions for life that do need to be managed, and often medication is an important part of that management.


how can you know that? while some people may have deep and close to unsolveable 'skitzophrenia', some don't and can get through it. There is so much subjectivite opinion involved in these 'diseases' it is close to impossible to say anything objective about it that doesnt end you up in quicksand.

'Bi-polar' is even more flakey. I'm not denying the reality of these things and the deep suffering of some people with patterns of thinking that come under such descriptions. But the idea that these patterns are definative and fixed, on and off, and black and white, is a completely ignorant view of the multitude of cases.

There is often someone who will say from personal experience someone they know had that, suffered terribly etc and to say it isnt neccessarly a real disorder is to devalue it.. i understand and completely sympathise with anybody who has deep suffering of whatever type and circumstance. But it gives you no justification to make definative statements about all cases, which is a completely different issue.

Last edited by matmonkfish : 07 July 2013 at 06:56 AM.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #47
Originally Posted by Hirazi: I fully agree with Leigh on this one and would even go so far as to suggest not allowing these kinds of threads here at all anymore. If your truly suffering from clinical depression, this isn't the place to discuss it, even if you want to stay away from trained professionals (of the medical/psychiatric kind)...

edit: badly formed sentence.



I think it's interesting and oddly related in a way.

I don't know where this notion came from, but someone said once that a precondition to great art is some kind of inherit instability. That great creative breakthrough comes about through someones electrical or emotional circuitry trying to balance itself out, or correct itself due to distress. Then further than that, art is a form of therapy, and most people attracted to it are attracted to it's therapeutic potential.

Then if you go to an even more radical view, someone like Alex Grey believes art can be incredibly healing. And one of the tasks of the artist is to try to cure themselves of their psychological ailments through art, and the art they create in the process may help to atleast aid other people in the same issue.

You could go to an ever more radical viewpoint of someone like Terence Mckenna who said, "The artists task is to save the soul of mankind, anything less is a dithering while roam burns". "If the artists cannot find the way, then the way cannot be found". He believed all the issues of the world really rest on a root point, very very deep beneath the surface, that is something which exists entirely in the collective human imagination, and as such, it's only artists that can really attempt to tackle it.

These views kind of put the focus on any sort of psychological ailment as sort of a spiritual issue or as an issue of improper psychological programming. Which are both things inherently intertwined with the creation of art. As potential creators of the meme's of culture it's important that the sort of meme's we create are healthy and beneficial. That they enforce or point the direction to ideal forms of psychological programming that can actually aid an individual in their life. In this way, the ability of an artist to tackle any issue of psychological distress, with only their art, is fairly paramount. Really in a way I think we are in the business of trying to figure out, what can be done with psychological issues, if the only tool you have is the things you think, and some electronic mediums to help enforce those thoughts. And it's the ability of a piece of art to really make someone happy, or turn them in a better direction of thinking that is the sign of art that is truly good.

Last edited by techmage : 07 July 2013 at 08:54 PM.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #48
Originally Posted by matmonkfish: how can you know that? while some people may have deep and close to unsolveable 'skitzophrenia', some don't and can get through it. There is so much subjectivite opinion involved in these 'diseases' it is close to impossible to say anything objective about it that doesnt end you up in quicksand.

'Bi-polar' is even more flakey. I'm not denying the 'reality' of these things and the deep suffering of some people with patterns of thinking that come under such descriptions. But the idea that these patterns are definative and fixed, on and off, and black and white, is a completely ignorant view of the multitude of cases.

There is often someone who will say from personal experience someone they know had that, suffered terribly etc and to say it isnt neccessarly a real disorder is to devalue it.. i understand and completely sympathise with anybody who has deep suffering of whatever type and circumstance. But it gives you no justification to make definative statements about all cases, which is a completely different issue.


You have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #49
And you do? Based on what personal experiences, as those greatly differ from each unique person. Do you have enough evidence to back yourself up wholeheartedly? Does the world of modern medicine work as well as it really should? Or is there more behind the scenes based on the last hundred years of medical health that they are not letting us know about? Conspiracy or society being held inside the force of blind ignorance from those in charge who control and manipulate the system? I suggest you deeply look into the true historical facts behind medicine and the faces who altered it within there own agendas around the turn of the last century. Where the quacks and alternative healers really quacks? Are drugs truly a poison to us? Is Psychology a flawed science?

I mean I can go on and back myself up with true historical papers, documentaries, peer reviews and so on. What would be the point, it's like trying to convince someone that oil and water can somehow blend. If you really emotionally hurt by this, I think you would want to look into it at least if you have an open mind and are willing to liberate yourself. It'd you choice.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #50
Originally Posted by leigh: You have no idea what you're talking about.


I second the motion... He doesn't.

In 2013 i can't believe there are still people who think mental illness are illusions...

Here is an hint, mental illness are disease of the brain. Don't confuse them with having the blues or feeling sorry for yourself. People suffering from severe depression or bi-polar disorder are physically sick! It hurts! A severe anxiety attack can present the same symptoms than a heart attack! i know i ended up in the emergency room three time for it. You lose weight, have good chance of developping an ulcer and can't really function in the real world. And like any other disease you can't just wish it away. You have to seek treatment.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #51
Originally Posted by Tuxon86: I second the motion... He doesn't.

In 2013 i can't believe there are still people who think mental illness are illusions...

Here is an hint, mental illness are disease of the brain. Don't confuse them with having the blues or feeling sorry for yourself. People suffering from severe depression or bi-polar disorder are physically sick! It hurts! A severe anxiety attack can present the same symptoms than a heart attack! i know i ended up in the emergency room three time for it. You lose weight, have good chance of developping an ulcer and can't really function in the real world. And like any other disease you can't just wish it away. You have to seek treatment.


for ***** sake.. are you people reading the same words i am writing!

I have not questioned the reality of patterns of thinking/bodily sensations, symptoms and changes that come under descriptions of what we call bi-polar, skitzophrenia, severe anxiety etc and that people suffer incredibly. It is not an illusion.

only that they are absolute fixed conditions in all cases. i am saying that each case is unique to each individual and life circumstances and if you arent open to that there really is no point discussing anything at all here...

i find it quite unbelievable that you seem to know for certain they are fixed conditions, How the flipping hell do you know what happens in all cases and these things are absolute life diseases... that is just arrogant and in reverse to your complaints of people who devalue diseases or question their reality, devalues the hope of people that come under the descriptions of these disorders to get through them, or even their subjective experience in general, in that if it is an absolute objective disease then one should just swallow the pills for life and give up and on any hope of having a shred of personal belief in their own mind, intelligence, individuality and existence.. cant you see you are arguing from one side of a coin (the mechanical side) and are being as offensive as the 'they arent diseases' people? (the spiritual/esoteric side)

are you not atleast willing to entertain the idea that these things in some cases can be temporary, or have you absolutely made your minds up...

im not even so bothered of pushing the point that they can be temporary.. only your seeming convictions about things you cannot make 100 percent statements about

Last edited by matmonkfish : 07 July 2013 at 06:55 AM.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #52
I was in mental hospital twice too. im just now worknig on fixing my issues on my own for the 100th time. at my worst im locked in my room for almost a year, gain a ton of weight, pull out my eyebrows, obsess over garbage on the computer, etc. the only carrot on a stick to try to crawl out are past relationships and memories and who i could be if i got my life together. its a long struggle for me and my infj personality doesnt help. but i do know people like me do all these things for a reason. i def need pills to help but i also need support that i dont get. so im on my own and i hope to one day not fall back to this and catch myself for frequently and realize the work to stay out of it is worth it. i know theres people out there who dont have these problems but other problems. people like this girl get it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBwGgeu1DVA&

ive dated schizophrenic narcissistic women. they are really really really messed up lol.

Last edited by Electrocaseal : 07 July 2013 at 06:28 AM.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #53
Originally Posted by Electrocaseal: I was in mental hospital twice too. im just now worknig on fixing my issues on my own for the 100th time. at my worst im locked in my room for almost a year, gain a ton of weight, pull out my eyebrows, obsess over garbage on the computer, etc. the only carrot on a stick to try to crawl out are past relationships and memories and who i could be if i got my life together. its a long struggle for me and my infj personality doesnt help. but i do know people like me do all these things for a reason. i def need pills to help but i also need support that i dont get. so im on my own and i hope to one day not fall back to this and catch myself for frequently and realize the work to stay out of it is worth it. i know theres people out there who dont have these problems but other problems. people like this girl get it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBwGgeu1DVA&

ive dated schizophrenic narcissistic women. they are really really really messed up lol.


sorry to hear that.. if you ever want to talk about these things PM me.. i spent a year locked indoors once.. its not nice.. go easy on the computer, i dont think it helps
 
Old 07 July 2013   #54
@techmage
I don't deny the thought, that creativity and mental illness are somehow intertwined. Plenty of evidence for that. I just think this isn't the place to discuss it, especially since discussions like this quickly steer clear from the creative part of it...
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Old 07 July 2013   #55
When there is confusion over depression, I refer my friends to this...

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Depres...troduction.aspx

...as the expert says in the video, there are different levels of depression and measures that need to be taken. A Doctor will only put you on medication if your condition calls for it.

My personal recommendation is that one should try to improve their diet and lifestyle first, before seeking medical help. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. But if you find yourself struggling then its time to pay a visit to the quack.

For me it was simply more sleep, diet and exercise and also stop taking on too much in addition to the day job. Although I still get very depressed, I can now recognise the warning signs and triggers and take the appropriate action. However, I do regret having lived with depression for 10 years before taking a leap of faith and talk to a Doctor. That's when things began to get better...
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Old 07 July 2013   #56
Leigh you are awesome. <3

This thread contains some... interesting ideas.

Ok, so everyone is different, I think we can all agree on that, but the fact is mental illness is real and sometimes permanent. I myself have severe, major, reoccurring depressive disorder (Possibly bipolar II, they are still trying to figure it out). I have been trying to deal with it for over a decade now. I've tried everything from medications, exercise, diet, CBT, and just activly trying to catch and change my thinking. Some things help and others don't.

Medication, is however, necessary. The reason I have such severe depression issues actually comes from a genetic mutation in my first chromosome. I have two different mutated MTHFR genes. These mutations cause my brain have low levels of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine. All three happy chemicals! The mutation is known to cause depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, and schizophrenia(among a host of unrelated problems).
So basically, unless they can find a way to un-mutate my genes, this is a permanent issue that I will have to take care of.

Anyway, so the reason I thought I should chime in is because people can say that you don't know it's permanent and medication could be unnecessary, but that is not always the case. I have a genetic mutation that will not(to my knowledge) be going away, and it causes me to under produce chemicals which cause me to become depressed. It's permanent. You can look this stuff up. The mutations were discovered in the Human Genome Project and only recently(relatively speaking) can they even test for them. So I take medicine to force my brain to produce more of the chemicals to make me happy, and that's OK. When I don't take medication (which I'm not currently, due discontinuing my last med right as I was moving across country) my life gets very hard.

I wish there was more understanding about depression and other mental illnesses. I hate that I have to feel embarrassed or possibly at risk of being marked for something that I can't change. I think, a lot of times, it's just hard to understand something you don't have. It's much easier to offer suggestions on how to fix it.

And as far as art and depression, it's tough to say. I make more art when I'm depressed, but mainly because I don't want to see people, or do things. And the art that I make is usually personal work and takes away from time I should spend honing my skills. For actual CG work, I function and perform much better happy. I don't think I will every tell an employer about it, because I don't want them to think it will affect my performance or make me a liability.

Last edited by berfica : 07 July 2013 at 07:30 AM.
 
Old 07 July 2013   #57
Interesting ideas indeed.

Thanks matmonkfish and techmage for sharing your thoughts. I must apologize for those unaccepting and harsh, we don't all agree and that's part of the journey.

There has also been calls to end this discussion. I am shocked at even entertaining the idea of blocking conversation on this, and would like to share some data on the importance of discussing the medical practice as a whole in relation to the OP's post.

(Data are for the U.S.)
Percent of persons using at least one prescription drug in the past month: 48.5% (2007-2010)
Percent of persons using three or more prescription drugs in the past month: 21.7% (2007-2010)
Percent of persons using five or more prescription drugs in the past month: 10.6% (2007-2010)

CDC.gov Source: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/drugs.htm
And more recently in mainstream news and practitioners. If these are correct the percentage of americans on prescription drugs have increased dramatically the last few years. So its getting worse?

I think we can all agree that it is alarming that so many people rely on medication. This leads me to question the overall factors that cause and influenced this, and they are many.

It could very well be that the majority need these drugs for real problems or their lives are improved by them. Which is a surprising idea because that means that it is now normal to be on prescription drugs. Does that sound right?

Advertising and marketing has a huge role in this, because it shows the answer to the public. Do this to fix that.

I think its what we've made ourselves into. Culturally, economic and mentally, we've put immense stresses on ourselves.
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Old 07 July 2013   #58
Originally Posted by berfica: I wish there was more understanding about depression and other mental illnesses. I hate that I have to feel embarrassed or possibly at risk of being marked for something that I can't change. I think, a lot of times, it's just hard to understand something you don't have. It's much easier to offer suggestions on how to fix it.

QFA

Originally Posted by rende: Interesting ideas indeed.
There has also been calls to end this discussion. I am shocked at even entertaining the idea of blocking conversation on this, and would like to share some data on the importance of discussing the medical practice as a whole in relation to the OP's post.

As one who called to end this discussion, let me make one thing clear: I have my own personal experience with severe mental illness and I do think these issues should be discussed more and better. I just don't think the CGSociety is the right place for it. Part of the discussion in this thread sadly illustrates my point quite well.
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Old 07 July 2013   #59
Originally Posted by Hirazi: QFA


As one who called to end this discussion, let me make one thing clear: I have my own personal experience with severe mental illness and I do think these issues should be discussed more and better. I just don't think the CGSociety is the right place for it. Part of the discussion in this thread sadly illustrates my point quite well.


Thanks for softening up a bit. The really good discussions will have parts that upset some of the audience, it means it is ripe for conflicting points of view to be brought closer to truth. The point of argument should not be to win, but to be willing to change your point of view. If it cannot lead to change it is pointless isn't it?

So on that note, I don't agree with your point (yet)
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Last edited by rende : 07 July 2013 at 11:12 AM. Reason: typo
 
Old 07 July 2013   #60
I agree with you Rouan. I think it is good to have such discussions. They are helpful as long as the the people that take part in them respect and value the opinion of the rest and don't try to force their ideas and philosophies..
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