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Old 06-27-2013, 04:43 PM   #1
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Opinion What adult animation should be: Invisible to You Documentary

Rob note:

One of my pet peeves is that I love reading about how a lot of animation fans want more mature content. Hell they almost demand it.

But when pressed of what they think is "mature" their definition is more anything but (Extreme Sex,Violence).



Well my good friend Erben shared with me an amazing documentary series about childhood abuse called "Invisible to You"



The clips are very powerful statement of what animation can do.

You can checkthem out here:
http://vimeo.com/67216430

http://vimeo.com/67216428

http://vimeo.com/67216429

BTW All video links are safe for work. Do share them.
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:00 PM   #2
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So if sex and violence isn't mature, then what is it?
 
Old 06-27-2013, 05:49 PM   #3
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How about religion, politics, crime, death and grief, racism, GMO, chronic illness or terminal disease? These are all subjects which could be tackled in a mature animated project. In Japan, they have shows like Bartender, Sanctuary, Monster, Jin-Roh and others which can delve into mature content without sliding into extreme sex and violence. (well, okay Jin-Roh and Sanctuary are still pretty violent but...)

I think extreme sex and violence are immediate indicators of mature content to western audiences. (In Japan some children's or teen shows have some level of both) Todd Macfarlane said, in his commentary on the HBO Spawn series that he put these things up front to "get the soccor moms out of the room". I think without these a show might immediately be thought of as for children and not given a chance.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:35 PM   #4
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I don't think there's any one thing that makes animation mature. Most of the so-called mature animation I've seen, it's as if the directors got so caught up on being able to have sex and violence in their film, they forgot that those things still need to serve the story.

Also "mature" isn't quite the same thing as "adults only". Childrens' shows can sometimes cover some weighty subject matter in a mature way, while the few adults-only cartoons I've seen were incredibly childish.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:49 PM   #5
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I remember when I helped with an interview about Deus Ex 2 and we've asked Warren Spector about what he thinks about how the expression "adult entertainment" basically means porn... This is not a new issue :(
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:53 PM   #6
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Princess Mononoke is my favorite Miyazaki film.
Violence and environmental issues. (o;
 
Old 06-27-2013, 08:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by circusboy
Princess Mononoke is my favorite Miyazaki film.
Violence and environmental issues. (o;

And my personal favorie by Miyazaki is Nausicca and the Valley of the wind.
Kinda like a Disney fairy tale with a higher body count.

I like the movie a lot becuase the violence is a BIG PART of the tale.
After all this idealistic young girl wanted to stop an ongoing war all by herself.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:21 PM   #8
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Porn and Violence can't define 'Mature'. It's more about the theme. 'Waltz with Bashir' was an incredibly well made mature animation feature. Sadly, there are very less films like that.
 
Old 06-27-2013, 11:51 PM   #9
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Well animation is just a medium.

Say you make an animated film in the vein of "Fatal Attraction" or "Disclosure". Those types of stories can use sexual content in effective ways.

You also have things like "Dirty Dancing" that kind of cross-over with romantic physical intimacy.

And if you turn the dial down a bit further you have things like Underworld, Resident Evil "Alice" movies, or Wonder-Woman where there is this inter-breeding of muted sexuality and action themes.

Which to me.. all the above are fair game.

I think an animated film about a Bank Robbery can be a good one too - cause these are situations where you might have something to say.

Another classic example of "something to say" is Brian De Palma's "Scarface" which was bordering between an R and an X rating. Supposedly law enforcement groups in Miami said the film helped people to understand the bad effects of drugs because of its graphic portrayal of the multi-layered downward spiral of the lead character so the ratings board were persuaded to let the film have an R rating and go to theatres, where an X rating would have reduced its viewership.

It's in the hands of the artists (especially in animation) to choose what they can do for "mature audiences". The concept of mature audiences is that you are going to talk about things "Mature people can grasp".

I've always thought that was the idea.

P.S.: "Invisible To You", posted by Rob above, is a brilliant series, but if I may be frank... I'll be damned if these are the only forms of "mature animation" people will allow.
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Last edited by CGIPadawan : 06-27-2013 at 11:58 PM.
 
Old 06-28-2013, 04:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
And my personal favorie by Miyazaki is Nausicca and the Valley of the wind. Kinda like a Disney fairy tale with a higher body count.


That is what I'm talking about. It has a pg rating. It does not have to have to be sex, violience and cussing to be mature.

I think some who try to do mature kind of stick to that formula or stick to the poop jokes and talking happy animals.

There are so many stories that can be told that are mature and still suitable for even kids.
I think animation could be used to portray many messages and does not have to be just that.
 
Old 06-28-2013, 09:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by circusboy
Princess Mononoke is my favorite Miyazaki film.
Violence and environmental issues. (o;


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertoOrtiz
And my personal favorie by Miyazaki is Nausicca and the Valley of the wind.
Kinda like a Disney fairy tale with a higher body count.

I like the movie a lot becuase the violence is a BIG PART of the tale.
After all this idealistic young girl wanted to stop an ongoing war all by herself.


In Japan those are children's films. They have very different expectations of what their audience can handle. Children's shows like Ranma 1/2 have tons of nudity and sexual innuendo. Evangelion has a child character masturbate and blow in front of a half naked girl in a hospital bed. Surprisingly that happened to be very important to the story and development of that character.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:57 PM   #12
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I'm wondering how long it will take for this discussion to have people start comparing (lack of?) prudishness between American, European and Asian societies
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:11 PM   #13
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Some of the so-called "mature" titles with sex and violence (dumb Hollywood action blockbusters) are actually a lot more simple-minded and juvenile in actual thematic content compared to really well-written animated films that we think of as for children (Pixar's best work comes to mind).

Mature to me means how deeply the thematic focus delves into the complexities of human nature and philosophical explorations. Sex and violence has little to do with that, although they can be used to support the themes, if they are used with intelligence (as opposed to exploitation and gratuity).

I think a lot of the whining about the lack of "mature" animation is simply that people want to see more realistic stylizations (instead of cartoony ones) and more extreme action/violence/sex, as well as more genre-specific tropes they enjoy (sci-fi, fantasy, horror, action/adventure). It's really the smaller minority that actually wants "maturity" instead of simply more visceral excitement.
 
Old 06-28-2013, 11:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatique
Some of the so-called "mature" titles with sex and violence (dumb Hollywood action blockbusters) are actually a lot more simple-minded and juvenile in actual thematic content compared to really well-written animated films that we think of as for children (Pixar's best work comes to mind).

Mature to me means how deeply the thematic focus delves into the complexities of human nature and philosophical explorations. Sex and violence has little to do with that, although they can be used to support the themes, if they are used with intelligence (as opposed to exploitation and gratuity).

I think a lot of the whining about the lack of "mature" animation is simply that people want to see more realistic stylizations (instead of cartoony ones) and more extreme action/violence/sex, as well as more genre-specific tropes they enjoy (sci-fi, fantasy, horror, action/adventure). It's really the smaller minority that actually wants "maturity" instead of simply more visceral excitement.


Perhaps you meant True Maturity is demanded by the minority of audiences and the majority want "maturity" (which is Visceral Excitement)?

If so, my opinion is: "The best entertainer can ring all the bells. Even a film full of swimsuit wearing girls carrying laser guns can have higher meaning."
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan
If so, my opinion is: "The best entertainer can ring all the bells. Even a film full of swimsuit wearing girls carrying laser guns can have higher meaning."


Generally speaking, when the gratuitous/exploitation aspects become too prominent, they start to dilute and distract from the more serious aspect of the message behind the storytelling.

I think the tone is really important. Look at Boogie Nights; it's about porn stars, but there's no gratuitous exploitation, regardless of the sex scenes and nudity.
 
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