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Old 06 June 2013   #31
Originally Posted by Boone: I would also like to invite you, if you haven't already, to join us on the BA forum. There's a lot going down with Blender at the moment, and it would be a shame for such a passionate person such as yourself to miss out. In either case, I go by the name of SamusDrake.


Wait, you're on the BA forums? What a coincidence, so am I.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #32
Originally Posted by simple3d: Also isn't Maya not really used for rendering? It is more an amazing model/animation tool - correct?


Lots and lots of places use maya to render via one of its built-in renderers like mental ray or an add-on rendering engine.

The final render files could be maya scene files or they might get converted into the renderer's native format for specific reasons.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #33
You have to get a few more facts straight. These are direct quotes from just a few posts on this thread. Did you simply ignore reading them?

I do think, however, that a lot of people have a problem with Blender users ...

There are more powerful apps than blender, there are easier to use apps than blender, this doesnt leave much reason for many people to use it.

... BI renderer isn't all that great outside of cartoonish renders).

Originally Posted by ThreeDeeMacGee: Okay, let's get a few facts straight:

1. No one's being biased towards Blender. Hell, there's people out there who like it. You just think we're biased because we've been replying to your questions. It's you who said it, not us.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #34
Thanks.

What makes Lightwave, or any other renderer better than another? I am new, and I can't tell the difference between most. I guess I am trying to get a scientific answer. Is there a scientific answer, or is this just subjective?

Now the people on this site are the best of the best. I can't imagine that humans actually produce such awesome artwork. It is truly amazing.

Originally Posted by Boone: I will assume - because you are asking this question - that you are new to this 3D stuff. If so, then the short answer is no; Blender's rendering capabilities are solid, especially for a beginner. If you must have the best bang-for-your-buck then Lightwave is your best bet for rendering.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #35
Cool, I didn't know that.

Originally Posted by sentry66: Lots and lots of places use maya to render via one of its built-in renderers like mental ray or an add-on rendering engine.

The final render files could be maya scene files or they might get converted into the renderer's native format for specific reasons.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #36
Originally Posted by ThreeDeeMacGee: Wait, you're on the BA forums? What a coincidence, so am I.



That's awesome. Are you under the same name? PM me on BA if you're not.
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Old 06 June 2013   #37
Originally Posted by simple3d:
There are more powerful apps than blender, there are easier to use apps than blender, this doesnt leave much reason for many people to use it.



It's not Blender's capabilities or ease of use that's the issue. It's the support and critical mass that the other apps already have. It's a really tough market to compete in. There isn't even room for XSI anymore apparently with how Autodesk is treating it lately.

Businesses have a vested interest in their customers and their products, sometimes letting end-users talk directly with engineers on staff who may have written the code in question. There's a certain amount of confidence in that vs being open-source and being maintained by the goodness of misc people's hearts.

I'm not sure if Blender has that level of tech support since it's open-source. From what I understand, Blender's support is more like "here's all the code, see ya" and you're on your own to figure out why Blender's new feature is breaking your rig or custom feature.

Last edited by sentry66 : 06 June 2013 at 12:49 AM.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #38
Originally Posted by simple3d: Thanks.

What makes Lightwave, or any other renderer better than another? I am new, and I can't tell the difference between most. I guess I am trying to get a scientific answer. Is there a scientific answer, or is this just subjective?

Now the people on this site are the best of the best. I can't imagine that humans actually produce such awesome artwork. It is truly amazing.


Well, the straight answer is that Lightwave has a widely accepted reputation for having a good out-of-the-box renderer. I personally found it easier to use and get better results than other packages, but the main reason is that LW has unlimited(well, 999) Render Nodes - something you don't get with other packages. Its best to ask on the Newtek forums, if you get the opportunity. Its one of the reasons LW hasn't died like everyone keeps predicting year-in, year-out...
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Old 06 June 2013   #39
Thanks again. See you on the BA forums.

Originally Posted by Boone: Well, the straight answer is that Lightwave has a widely accepted reputation for having a good out-of-the-box renderer. I personally found it easier to use and get better results than other packages, but the main reason is that LW has unlimited(well, 999) Render Nodes - something you don't get with other packages. Its best to ask on the Newtek forums, if you get the opportunity. Its one of the reasons LW hasn't died like everyone keeps predicting year-in, year-out...
 
Old 06 June 2013   #41
Anyone remember the story , years back, when a guy got a job at Pixar on Monsters Inc based on an animation he made in HASH ANIMATION MASTER ? It happens, the only thing I'd say is, if you're doing it as an artist, who cares what you use.
If you're doing it to be hired, you have better chances if you already understand a production pipeline and use common tools.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #42
Tech support is actually an incredibly small thing when factored in directly for anybody except the absolute biggest client.

Maturity and the (relatively) tight testing releases get from the trickle down process of shops hammering those softwares (Maya/Soft/Max/Houdini/C4D) by the hundreds is a much bigger contributing factor.

If developer access was one, Blender would be ahead of the curve as its developers are known to be vocal and accessible. But it's not.

Developers being subservient to the sales process, however, instead of treating the software like their sandbox and play thing, and a massive, competent client based with razor thin margins to play by is a much bigger factor that Blender, intrinsic to its nature and that of its devlopers, simply can't ever reach critical mass on.

It's always give and take, no dev or business model is perfect.
Blender gets the latest tech because it's its creators plaything, it gets interesting tidbits from Siggraph much, much sooner than Maya or Soft ever do (if they ever get it), but you also have to take the fast spinning mill and the disjointed presentation and greatly varying accessibility that come with its model.

When business models are predicated on tight margins (vfx), dev models like that tend to scare the client base off, regardless of the quality of the product. Safety and predictability have, historically, yielded much bigger value long term for AD's client base.
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Old 06 June 2013   #43
Yeah, I think it is clear that you would be crazy to use Blender in a professional studio. My main question is the RENDERER.

In other word, the still images that people post here. Why do many people think the renderer is inferior.

I think what I learned so far is that rendering quality is based on the tool, and more importantly the artist.

I think many people consider some renderers better than other, but I can't tell if it is just "what I think", or is there specific reasons why Blender isn't up to snuff.

Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: Tech support is actually an incredibly small thing when factored in directly for anybody except the absolute biggest client.

Maturity and the (relatively) tight testing releases get from the trickle down process of shops hammering those softwares (Maya/Soft/Max/Houdini/C4D) by the hundreds is a much bigger contributing factor.

If developer access was one, Blender would be ahead of the curve as its developers are known to be vocal and accessible. But it's not.

Developers being subservient to the sales process, however, instead of treating the software like their sandbox and play thing, and a massive, competent client based with razor thin margins to play by is a much bigger factor that Blender, intrinsic to its nature and that of its devlopers, simply can't ever reach critical mass on.

It's always give and take, no dev or business model is perfect.
Blender gets the latest tech because it's its creators plaything, it gets interesting tidbits from Siggraph much, much sooner than Maya or Soft ever do (if they ever get it), but you also have to take the fast spinning mill and the disjointed presentation and greatly varying accessibility that come with its model.

When business models are predicated on tight margins (vfx), dev models like that tend to scare the client base off, regardless of the quality of the product. Safety and predictability have, historically, yielded much bigger value long term for AD's client base.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #44
for a awhile at least, blender's renderer didn't support SSS or GI.

I'm actually not sure if it currently does or not - haven't kept a close eye on it. Surely it does now though.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #45
Originally Posted by simple3d: Sorry. I do agree the post was somewhat sarcastic, and could have been written better. So you already seem to lump Blender users into a stereotype. I find that interesting.


You might want to look up the definition of the term "stereotype". There's a difference between stereotyping and commenting on a real phenomenon that you've actually repeatedly seen. And unlike your claim that you've seen people being regarded as "bad artists" on this site simply because they're Blender users, which is patently false, I've actually repeatedly seen Blender users evangelising and making ignorant statements, exactly like you did in this thread, on this site over the years.
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