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Old 06-22-2013, 08:53 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone
There used to be a time, many moons ago, when one could afford Maya Complete at £1,500. But now at £3,200 its now out of the reach for most individuals. Saying that I hear there is this £130 3-month license one can pay for Maya, so I guess its not all doom and gloom...


Ok, i'm not sure how to phrase this without it sounding bad, but why should it be within the reach of most individuals?

Its very complex, specialised software people use to create expensive vfx. There is a plethora of free/cheap 3d software if you want to learn the ropes, but you don't hear people in other industries say that their expensive equipment designed for their industry should be within reach of most people. And although the initial cost is certainly high for a starting business, you should be able to pay off a licence fairly quickly as long as you don't under charge.

By the way, I'm not defending Autodesk solely here, as a 3dstudio user since DOS versions in 1993, they are slacking recently in my opinion, I'm just talking in general.
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Old 06-22-2013, 09:27 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethule
Ok, i'm not sure how to phrase this without it sounding bad, but why should it be within the reach of most individuals?

Its very complex, specialised software people use to create expensive vfx. There is a plethora of free/cheap 3d software if you want to learn the ropes, but you don't hear people in other industries say that their expensive equipment designed for their industry should be within reach of most people. And although the initial cost is certainly high for a starting business, you should be able to pay off a licence fairly quickly as long as you don't under charge.

By the way, I'm not defending Autodesk solely here, as a 3dstudio user since DOS versions in 1993, they are slacking recently in my opinion, I'm just talking in general.


I totally agree with this. Software like MS Word can be charged at much lower rates because it's not a niche product and therefore has a huge market. 3D authoring software, on the other hand, has a much smaller market, while probably having a longer, and more complex development cycle. It is therefore to be expected that it'd be charged at a premium. When your pool of potential customers is so small, you have to charge a high rate to make a profit.
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:07 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethule
Ok, i'm not sure how to phrase this without it sounding bad, but why should it be within the reach of most individuals?

Its very complex, specialised software people use to create expensive vfx. There is a plethora of free/cheap 3d software if you want to learn the ropes, but you don't hear people in other industries say that their expensive equipment designed for their industry should be within reach of most people. And although the initial cost is certainly high for a starting business, you should be able to pay off a licence fairly quickly as long as you don't under charge.

By the way, I'm not defending Autodesk solely here, as a 3dstudio user since DOS versions in 1993, they are slacking recently in my opinion, I'm just talking in general.


Well, I certainly see merit in what you ask and point out, but I was just pointing out that there is frustration amongst many users and artists.

Whilst this does not include myself, its all too common the answer amongst most users of such software is "Cracks are the way to go. Autodesk doesn't care about individuals. And besides the price of such software is too expensive."

So, there is interest outside of studios for such software, and thus potential customers. Good efforts have been made in the past to address this: Maya PLE, and Complete at £1,500 with an upgrade of £500(about that, if memory serves) and a slim version of XSI at one point for £400. Cinema 4D has a prime edition at £700 whilst even Lightwave at a reasonable £980, which is a full package.

I'm in the middle ground in this debate: Whilst I do agree that Max and Maya are made for studios and their hardware resources, its hard to ignore the frustration of those who like using software such as Maya because of preference but cannot afford the price tag.

I personally don't have a problem with the prices now as much as I did a decade ago, although, I've always enjoyed using Maya for programming and scripting purposes, but the price now is bloomin expensive. At £1,500...one could afford it, but at £3,200 with an upgrade price of £2,500...I have to look elsewhere. Thankfully, as python is becoming the scripting standard, and my forte being programming, Blender will do nicely. The other bits I can get by on with Blender's own tools and other programs such as Silo and soon, ZBrush.
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:54 PM   #34
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If you're doing freelance, your rate should reflect the cost of software you're using, and you can write off most of these costs, so it's really not that big of an issue. If you're a hobbyist, then yes, it's expensive. Some hobbies are. Plus, there are pieces of software out there that you can use for cheap, as long as you don't use it for "monetary gain". Houdini Apprentice (FREE) and Houdini Apprentice HD ($100) come to mind.

AD products are expensive from an individual standpoint. Most studios (their main customers) buy the software in bulk at discounted prices.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:00 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone
Whilst I can only agree with you on the development of 3D software, I don't believe the majority of people arguing against the price of Max, Maya etc are after a "2 dollar app" price. They are merely after an edition of that software that is affordable for them as individuals.

There used to be a time, many moons ago, when one could afford Maya Complete at £1,500. But now at £3,200 its now out of the reach for most individuals. Saying that I hear there is this £130 3-month license one can pay for Maya, so I guess its not all doom and gloom...


With this, I do agree. I like a lot what SideFX have done in that regard. There used to be the days of PLE licenses (at least for Maya). But the 3-month license option is a very good offer, IMO.
 
Old 06-23-2013, 02:46 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone
I personally don't have a problem with the prices now as much as I did a decade ago, although, I've always enjoyed using Maya for programming and scripting purposes, but the price now is bloomin expensive. At £1,500...one could afford it, but at £3,200 with an upgrade price of £2,500...I have to look elsewhere.


But that's my point...even at £3500, you are getting more than your moneys worth. I mean, what did you think of Maya's price when it cost over 10k?
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Old 06-23-2013, 03:55 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonman2
There used to be the days of PLE licenses (at least for Maya).


Maya still has a Personal Learning Edition, though it's not called that; Maya student version is free for personal use, and doesn't require any formal academic affiliation (there's an option for "non-traditional student", which I assume means self-taught).
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:47 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethule
But that's my point...even at £3500, you are getting more than your moneys worth. I mean, what did you think of Maya's price when it cost over 10k?


That was me speaking about how Maya fits into my personal pipeline - not one of a studio, and certainly not everyone else.

For my financial situation(just out of interest and chin-wagging), £3,200 might as well be £10,000 and over. With my needs being that of programming and considering the alternatives on offer, I have no problem looking elsewhere - for my needs. At £1,500, I can accept that I have a winning hand with Maya...but at £3,200? I have to fold...

I suppose what I am trying to say is that whilst I agree with you about the pricing of software, I also sympathise with those who don't. However, they do need to realise that Max and Maya are not the only packages on the market now, and if one does their homework, they will find that they can afford tools to accomplish their tasks and in some cases do them better than they would with Max or Maya.

So really, there is little reason to complain about the price of 3D packages now. Which I believe you and I agree on.
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:15 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meloncov
Maya still has a Personal Learning Edition, though it's not called that; Maya student version is free for personal use, and doesn't require any formal academic affiliation (there's an option for "non-traditional student", which I assume means self-taught).


Where did you hear about this? It appears not to be the case, according to Autodesk...

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servle...112&id=17354855
 
Old 06-24-2013, 05:40 AM   #40
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If you register as 'Home Student' you get the educational versions for free.
 
Old 06-24-2013, 09:55 AM   #41
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I can't imagine why anyone would think wages aren't falling like a rock. Back in the olden days I knew guys making $200,000, or even up to $350,000 per year and they worked 9 to 5. These days just getting into the six figures seems a herculean task and you will work 80 hours a week!
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:30 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrimski
If you register as 'Home Student' you get the educational versions for free.


Call me thick, but I can't seem to find that option...

https://students.autodesk.com/?nd=register_v2

Moreover...

"A student is an individual enrolled at a recognized degree-granting or certificate-granting educational institution for three (3) or more credit hours in a degree-granting or certificate granting education program or in a nine (9) month or longer certificate program, and upon request by Autodesk is able to provide proof of such enrollment"

So it seems that home-schooled or not, you need to be able to prove you are enrolled in a program, and earning a degree or certificate of sorts. This is not the same as a PLE. Other posts around the same subject in other forums state contradicting points. I guess it's just gonna be easier to ask Autodesk directly...

EDIT: It seems some folks have already done so. Here's the last reply someone got from Autodesk...
"The license agreement states that you must be attending a secondary or post secondary school to qualify. Home schooling students qualify under secondary education. If you have surpassed both secondary and post secondary education, then you will not be qualified to use this software."
So, I guess a lot of people posting here do not qualify.

I guess I have derailed this thread enough. I just wanted to clarify this in case there are also some others interested. If you feel like it, post here more info. Otherwise, just PM me.
Cheers!

Last edited by Toonman2 : 06-24-2013 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Adding relevant information to the thread
 
Old 06-24-2013, 03:30 PM   #43
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