E3 Trailers and the future of CG

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Old 06 June 2013   #31
Originally Posted by AJ: Game of Thrones is absolutely bursting with VFX.


I think we're comparing it to Avengers type stuff since we're talking Stephen Spielberg's "implosion" of the film industry and how TV is the place to be these days.
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Old 06 June 2013   #32
Originally Posted by teruchan: Actually I am more excited by The Order: 1866 than almost any others. It is one of the few truly new and original IPs coming out this year. So far it doesn't seem very derivative of anything we have seen before.



I think some people will feel DISHONORED with that comment.
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Old 06 June 2013   #33
Originally Posted by eliseu gouveia: D' oh!
I thought this was gonna be a Best of E3 thread...

I'm just as giddy as a schoolgirl over the fact that more and more Hollywood actors and talent are looking at videogames as a feasible venue.


If you're looking for a best of E3, you could do worse than to watch this Game Trailers edit here. Still finding things I didn't know about!
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Old 06 June 2013   #34
Originally Posted by shakii: What we need to have is an open library access to unified basic assets. Incorporate those with a game engine. Make things procedural through open source or paid-access. It will make production costs more affordable, and in turn more demand for CG productions. After this many years of CG and countless assets being built, we still see there are studios and artists creating characters / vehicles /animations from scratch - things that are so generic I think is energy not well-spent.

Imagine needing to build a model of middle-age male warrior, or an animation of casual business-man like walking and turning 90' after taking 3 steps? Just adjust the sliders. Do the performances even with real-time, then bake and modify to the production needs.

I am not talking about one software that incorporates 100's of assets, but these assets should come from a whole community. Let's be honest here, there's really no secret to how edge loops should be built, how walk cycles are keyed, how a guy should fall, or how brick houses should be textured.

Create, share, and integrate. Pave the way for the artists 50% there, and let the artists focus on the rest that require more of their input.

Just my 2 cents!


Yes, reusing assets! Why not? Why does every movie need to create there own new york? Studios could rent out there CG sets, creatures etc.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #35
Originally Posted by shakii: What we need to have is an open library access to unified basic assets. Incorporate those with a game engine. Make things procedural through open source or paid-access. It will make production costs more affordable, and in turn more demand for CG productions. After this many years of CG and countless assets being built, we still see there are studios and artists creating characters / vehicles /animations from scratch - things that are so generic I think is energy not well-spent.


This has bothered me for a long time, especially as big studios continue to raise the bar of realism beyond what an indy developer can hope to achieve. What I find most surprising about the AAA games is how quickly they are forgotten by the developers/publishers given the huge investment. I understand why a company like Rockstar would waste no time starting work on GTA5 after GTA4 was released. What I don't understand is their inability to monetize or otherwise open up GTA's Liberty City to other smaller projects. They created a whole city, with day/night and weather cycles, populated it with inhabitants and packed it full of detail. Then they used it to tell just a couple of stories within the GTA narrative. There are so many stories that could be told with an entire (believable) city as a backdrop. It's like a movie studio from the golden era building an entire neighborhood or small town, then only using it for a single production. Couldn't Liberty City (for example) be opened up in such a way that it did not compete with their flagship title but rather enriched it? Same goes for most of the open world games that cost millions to develop yet are expected to turn a profit with one released title.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #36
Originally Posted by moogaloonie: This has bothered me for a long time, especially as big studios continue to raise the bar of realism beyond what an indy developer can hope to achieve. What I find most surprising about the AAA games is how quickly they are forgotten by the developers/publishers given the huge investment. I understand why a company like Rockstar would waste no time starting work on GTA5 after GTA4 was released. What I don't understand is their inability to monetize or otherwise open up GTA's Liberty City to other smaller projects. They created a whole city, with day/night and weather cycles, populated it with inhabitants and packed it full of detail. Then they used it to tell just a couple of stories within the GTA narrative. There are so many stories that could be told with an entire (believable) city as a backdrop. It's like a movie studio from the golden era building an entire neighborhood or small town, then only using it for a single production. Couldn't Liberty City (for example) be opened up in such a way that it did not compete with their flagship title but rather enriched it? Same goes for most of the open world games that cost millions to develop yet are expected to turn a profit with one released title.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Rockstar been in fact re-using the same Liberty City map game after game? I recognize the same places between GTA IV and Chinatown Wars for example.

Doesn't GTA 5 just occur in Liberty City again but with re-touches?
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Old 06 June 2013   #37
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Rockstar been in fact re-using the same Liberty City map game after game? I recognize the same places between GTA IV and Chinatown Wars for example.

Doesn't GTA 5 just occur in Liberty City again but with re-touches?


The layout of Liberty City was deliberately similar, but all of the assets would have had to be remade for the more restrictive DS/mobile platforms.

GTA5 returns the franchise to the west coast (Vinewood), possibly to the same areas introduced in GTA:San Andreas.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #38
Originally Posted by moogaloonie: The layout of Liberty City was deliberately similar, but all of the assets would have had to be remade for the more restrictive DS/mobile platforms.

GTA5 returns the franchise to the west coast (Vinewood), possibly to the same areas introduced in GTA:San Andreas.


Well that's still some degree of re-use.. I'd hardly call that abandoning things quickly.

One day they'll make a GTA game where you can go to an airport to travel between Liberty City and Vinewood!
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Old 06 June 2013   #39
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan: Well that's still some degree of re-use.. I'd hardly call that abandoning things quickly.

One day they'll make a GTA game where you can go to an airport to travel between Liberty City and Vinewood!


Just using the layout doesn't exactly seem like much re-use to me. All of the buildings, vehicles and characters still had to be re-made from scratch. Chinatown wars was cel-shaded for precisely that reason. Not to say there won't be re-use of vehicles and characters from GTA4 to GTA5, but the locations will again be all new.

Combining all GTA locations into a single games seems all but inevitable.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #40
Originally Posted by moogaloonie: Just using the layout doesn't exactly seem like much re-use to me. All of the buildings, vehicles and characters still had to be re-made from scratch. Chinatown wars was cel-shaded for precisely that reason. Not to say there won't be re-use of vehicles and characters from GTA4 to GTA5, but the locations will again be all new.

Combining all GTA locations into a single games seems all but inevitable.


Well it does take a lot of burden off to already have a lay-out. Also, I guess it will take some sleuthing, but asides from a few mesh edits, I'd like to think a majority of the changes are with texture maps, normal maps, and VFX like Global Illumination.

Basically, it's hard to tell any level of re-use for Vinewood, for example, just by looking at the finished result because of all the gravy now poured over the geometry.
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Old 06 June 2013   #41
I think the level of advancement of the consoles or game systems, between the long development times of a AAA title, made most assets obsolete immediately after a game is released. There is little reason to expect the assets of a PS1 game to be reused on a PS2 sequel. I think this will change going forward, though. a game like The Division or Watchdogs has a city that isn't going to get much, if any, better by advanced technology. These might become assets which can be monetized.

Imagine if a developer wanted to do a survival horror game based in the New York of The Division. All those amazing assets are already there. The same could be said of the Chicago from Watchdogs. I know if I were making a game, a city is the last thing I would want to model personally. If I could buy, rent or license a city, the same as one would buy or lease an engine like Unreal 4, that would be awesome. The new developer could just focus on their story, monsters and original aspects.

Companies could even license to indie developers on a profit sharing deal, similar to CryEngine. If you make something profitable, they get 20%, or you can pay $250,000 up front if you got the cash.
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Old 06 June 2013   #42
Originally Posted by teruchan: I think the level of advancement of the consoles or game systems, between the long development times of a AAA title, made most assets obsolete immediately after a game is released. There is little reason to expect the assets of a PS1 game to be reused on a PS2 sequel. I think this will change going forward, though. a game like The Division or Watchdogs has a city that isn't going to get much, if any, better by advanced technology.


Correct! Personally, I have trouble seeing any real difference between the games that are coming out both for PS4 and PS3, a list that includes:

The Last Of Us
Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
Spinter Cell: Blacklist
Call of Duty: Ghosts
Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
Watch Dogs
Gran Turismo 6 (PS4 version speculated ; For now PS3 only).

I mean, other than perhaps some extra VFX, maybe some extra facial motion, lens flares.. They could very well be releasing the same games on PS4 and PS3 for the next 1 or 2 years.

I mean.. They'll look "Great" on PS3 and what? They'll just look "Greater" on PS4? The vast majority of graphical improvements in-game (let's discount anything Digic does with trailers because that's totally unrelated to the power of next generation systems)....is more about VFX, character rigging, and motion.

But is that to say that the PS3 stuff for the last few years has been terrible looking?
Far from it, in my view.

Stuff like Quantic Dreams' demo has yet to be translated to true in-game-with-gameplay output.. so I'm not sure that's going to translate to their games either.

That said... the point that "Assets themselves can't get any better now" is starting to come true. The Division looked great, but at times it felt like Splinter Cell: Conviction on Sweet FX. You can basically grab whole maps, even characters, and just make sure you meld them in well with the latest... and you're set mostly.

P.S.: This generation? I'm getting a PS3... precisely for the above reasons!
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Old 06 June 2013   #43
I think that too much emphasis is being put on the graphical value that extra computing power adds to these games.

The extra power will mean things like more advanced physics, and much more complex AI. With games like Bioshock Infinite, and The Last of Us putting a lot of emphasis on NPC's and character relationships, I think that those things are MUCH more exciting than higher resolution textures, or more polys.
 
Old 06 June 2013   #44
Bioshock Infinite? Also for PS3.. Yet another reason for me to finally get one.

(My gaming console for the last seven years has been a Nintendo Wii.. so bear with me.. I feel a bit like I just came out of a cave...)
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Old 06 June 2013   #45
Might as well stick with the PC if you got one or can afford the new graphics cards.


Advantages:

Most games on PS4 & XBone will have a PC version (unlike previous gen)

PC games cheaper

Run games at 60+ frames per sec, higher resolutions etc.

Multi-screen gaming.

PC versions will be have much better ports due to the new consoles hardware being much closer to PCs.

Of course can use PC as a PC.

PCs upgradeable.



Yeah, I'm sticking with my PC.


Jules
 
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