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Old 06-04-2013, 04:14 AM   #1
RobertoOrtiz
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IP Incubator Club Thread 2013: Bi-Week-005: June 3-June 16- 2013

IP INCUBATOR CLUB:
PROJECT SPOTLIGHT

(Every two weeks I will spotlight one of the Incubator projects. To have a chance for a spotlight, just post a WIP on out IP incubator threads.)WIP THREAD:
Le Gouffre - Animated short film







PRODUCTION BLOG: http://legouffre.com/en

CATEGORY: Animation

PROJECT DESCRIPTION:

Le Gouffre is an 8-minute animated short film about two travellers who embark on the amazing journey of crossing an impossible gap. The team is currently working full-time on the film, without any financial backing, and is trying to create a unique look that blends hand-painted textures with realistic animation. The film should start its festival run by spring 2014 and be released on the internet later that year.

STATUS NUMBER: 2

TEAM MEMBERS: 3

Carl Beauchemin - Animation and Rigging
Thomas Chrétien - FX and Compositing
David Forest - Animation and Art Direction

START DATE: July 2011

ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE: December 2013

WIP THREAD: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr...f=153&t=1085457


Rob Note:


Welcome to the IP INCUBATOR CLUB
Past Threads:
IP Incubator Club Thread 2013: Bi-Week-004: May 20-June 2- 2013
IP Incubator Club Thread 2013: Bi-Week-003: May 6-19- 2013
IP Incubator Club Thread 2013: Bi-Week-002: April 22-May 5- 2013
IP Incubator Club Thread 2013: Week-001: April 15-21- 2013


Projects So Far:
---Click To Expand---
[ SPOILER - Click to reveal ]
Spoiler:

The Projects so far this week:


Project Name:____________CATEGORY:___Start Date:___ First Post______Link

STASIS_________________Games ______Dec 2010_____04-16-2013 ___Link
NeverEndingPrincessStory___Animation____TBD__________04-16-2013___ Link
Le Gouffre_______________Animation ___July 2011______04-16-2013___ Link
Top secret project _________Animation ___TBD_________04-16-2013____ Link
Spec Commercial__________Animation___ April 2013______04-17-2013___ Link
I am the Antagonist________Cross Media _TBD__________04-17-2013___ _Link
SCHIRKOA_______________Animation___ Mid 2010______04-17-2013___ Link
HYPERREALITY ENGINE_____3D Engine ___ April 2013_____04-18-2013___ Link
Blaster X HD_____________Games ______End of 2010____04-25-2013 ___Link
Soliloquy of a Madman _____ Games _____January 2013___04-23-2013 ___Link
Le Gouffre _______________Animation_____ July 2013_____ 04-23-2013___Link
I LOVE KAIJU_____________Animation___ April 2013______05-04-2013___ Link
NeverEndingPrincessStory __ Animation __June 2010_______04-29-2013___ Link





THE IP INCUBATOR CLUB.

in·cu·bate


/ˈɪnkyəˌbeɪt, ˈɪŋ-/ Show Spelled [in-kyuh-beyt, ing-] Show IPA verb, in·cu·bat·ed, in·cu·bat·ing.verb (used with object)
1. to sit upon (eggs) for the purpose of hatching.
2. to hatch (eggs), as by sitting upon them or by artificial heat.
3. to maintain at a favorable temperature and in other conditions promoting development, as cultures of bacteria or prematurely born infants.
4. to develop or produce as if by hatching; give form to: His brain was incubating schemes for raising money.

Welcome to the IP Incubator Club
The idea behind this Club is simple


POST WEEKLY UPDATES of Original IP that you are developing. Hopefully IP that can eventually help the creator generate some income.
Also you should provide CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK to the work posted by other posters of the club.

The idea of this "Incubator Club" is to get away from the gloom and doom and provide a lifeline of support for our fellow artists.

The artists will have at their discretion how much they wish to share on the projects they are working on, what program they will be using and the medium . But the IP HAS BE AN ORIGINAL CREATION.


YOU HAVE ONE WEEK TO POST AND UPDATE..

There are 3 ways to participate:
  • IP CREATOR
    Post bi-weekly updates of ip you are developing.
    Some Examples:
    • A 3d artist developing a line of Vinyl toys on ZBrush
    • A game developing working on a mobile game that uses Geo spatial data.
    • An Artist working to update his porfolio
    • A group of animators animator working on a weekly web series
  • But If you post your idea, please provide feedback on other's ideas.
IP REVIEWER





Provide reviews and comments of the IP being developed.
  • I am looking for people like Roger Eberts of the world and not the Simon Cowels.DIVAS will NOT BE TOLERATED.

  • IP MENTORSHIP
    An experienced artist/ develop can offer mentorship for the IP creators.
    Some examples:
    • An AAA game developer looking to help upcoming talent
    • Experienced feature animators could review game animations.
    • Writers can comment on story points
ANYONE CAN JOIN.


DEVELOPER CO-SPONSORS
My wife is a social worker and she suggested the idea that we use a SPONSOR model similar to AA. The idea is to match developers with individual sponsors. People whose responsability is to monito the progress of a specific project. The sponsors would be fellow developers. It would be their responsibility to provide support and provide guidance to the developer from an outsider's point of view. I'm not advocating "mentorship" where there usually is an imbalance of expertise/knowledge between two parties. Rather, I envision sponsorship to be a vehicle for peer support, for consultation between and among artists who each have valuable tools, experience, and knowledge to share. Sponsorship is method for both parties to learn and grow professionally and perhaps personally as well.



The Concept
___________________________
Ok so lets recap:
The idea behind this IP incubator club is to provide a cool hangout place for IP creators. recap....
Weekly threads will be posted, to provide encouragement for developer to keep working on their idea.

On way to see this is to think of us as a spotter on your local gym.
You use your WIP thread to post your regular updates, But ONCE A WEEK you post on the IP INC thread a summary, based on the forsmat posted blow.

GENERAL RULES:
  • FOR GEN DISCUSSION of the IP CLUB CLICK HERE: Your Own IP?
  • WEEKLY WIP are encouraged
  • On your weekly post please Fill the following information (you can cut and paste it
CONCEPT NAME:
STILL IMAGE: (VOLUNTARY)

CATEGORY:

Art
Animation
Comics
Design
Fashion (3D Printing)
Film
Games
Merchandizing
Publishing
Technology
Toys
Web Comics
Video

PROJECT DESCRIPTION:
STATUS NUMBER: 1
TEAM MEMBERS:(Voluntary)
START DATE
ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE : (Voluntary) -
WIP THREAD:
WHAT WENT RIGHT THIS WEEK:
WHAT WENT WRONG:
SHOW AND TELL:

  • WIP thread should be posted on the appropriate CGSociety/Game Art Sub forum and should follow the following naming convention: IP Incubator!:xxxxx:
  • Only participants who follow the rules and submit a weekly Entry entry will be eligible for a monthly spotlight ( A frontpage plug).
  • Any piece caught breaking the rules will be taken off the thread.
  • When you are done creating your IP please do give at least a thank you to the IP. We need the press.

RESOURCES:
ART LAW RESOURCES:
--CLICK TO EXPAND--
[ SPOILER - Click to reveal ]

MARKETPLACES:
--CLICK TO EXPAND--
[ SPOILER - Click to reveal ]
Spoiler:

CONFERENCES:
--CLICK TO EXPAND--
[ SPOILER - Click to reveal ]
Spoiler:

Digital Media:
Gaming:Europe: Comics:
  • Comicon
  • SPX
Animation Festivals:
  • SIGGRAPH
  • Bradford Animation Festival
__________________
LW FREE MODELS:FOR REAL Home Anatomy Thread
FXWARS
:Daily Sketch Forum:HCR Modeling
This message does not reflect the opinions of the US Government


Last edited by RobertoOrtiz : 06-04-2013 at 04:06 PM.
 
Old 06-04-2013, 05:12 AM   #2
CGIPadawan
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Right ... this is the Canadian film that I been suggesting should re-write its characters into Canadian Olympians to get the government grant right? Or that they should chase a mountaineering-outdoor apparel label to get funding.

I'd be interested to know how that's going....

And yes.. those suggestions were serious!

Grants can be silly things that call for blatant flag-waving.
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REVERSION
 
Old 06-04-2013, 01:13 PM   #3
Frotze
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Thanks for the plug Roberto! This IP club is a great initiative, we'll be sure to mention it in our blog this week.

@CGIPadawan

I know your serious. Those would have been good ideas if we weren't so far into the process. But even then, we'd rather have less or no funds and do the film we want than cannibalize everything just for the sake of being funded. At least a Kickstarter campaign would help us get some funds without changing our story. We're considering doing one later this year to pay for the music and sounds.

I'm curious to know how far you'd have been willing to change your REVERSION story yourself. Did you apply for any grants while doing it?
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:27 PM   #4
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David, I was wondering if you could discuss a little bit about how you came up with the story? What was your process for brainstorming? How many revisions of the story, storyboard, concept art, etc... did you go through during the pre-production phase? Did you create these things by yourself or with the team? How did you decide you were ready to start making the film?
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:51 PM   #5
Frotze
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@Grant

Sure, I'd be glad to!

Carl, Thomas and I developed the story together from the very beginning. We all went to the same school and always thought it would be fun to do a film together. After a few years of working in the industry, we figured it was the perfect moment to do this, so we moved in the same appartment and began working on the story.

We started out by thinking about what kind of feels we wanted to convey with the film, what kind of message we wanted to pass on. It was important for us to have a very universal story that would resonate with everyone, and also something that would feel different from everything else out there. That's how we finally came up with the concept of these travelers that find this deep abyss on their way and decide to build a gigantic bridge to cross it.

We had a lot of different ideas starting from this premise, and some old scripts even have dialogue, which we later decided to do without. We spent the first few months just drawing on little pieces of paper and organising the whole film on the table before even touching the computer. We'd use a timer and try to visualise the film just by looking at the pictures and trying to see if it was the right length (we originally aimed at six minutes but it's now more like eight). Once we felt we had something good enough, we spent at least another 3-4 months redrawing everything more clearly on the computer and getting an animatic up with temp music. The story went through tons of revisions during that time, to the point where we threw away at least half of what we had on paper. Once we had something we were proud of, we showed it to a bunch of different people and, with their feedback, did another pass of refinement.

So in the end, there was a lot of revisions and general back and forth, but we never saw this as wasted time - the story just became progressively more solid as we went along until we understood clearly why we needed this or that and we could justify every shot of every sequence. That's when we knew we were ready to start working full time on the pre-production.
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:58 PM   #6
Frotze
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CONCEPT NAME: Le Gouffre



PRODUCTION BLOG: http://legouffre.com/en

CATEGORY: Animation

PROJECT DESCRIPTION:

Le Gouffre is an 8-minute animated short film about two travellers who embark on the amazing journey of crossing an impossible gap. We are working full-time on this film, living on our own money, and we are basically trying to tell a great, dramatic story for everyone while creating a unique look that blends hand-painted textures with realistic animation.

PROJECT GOALS:

Win festivals, then make a big hit on the internet and gain the visibility and credibility that will allow us to eventually be able to live on telling our own stories.

STATUS NUMBER: 5

TEAM MEMBERS: 3

Carl Beauchemin - Animation and Rigging
Thomas Chrétien - FX and Compositing
David Forest - Animation and Art Direction

START DATE: July 2011

ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE: December 2013

WIP THREAD: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr...f=153&t=1085457

WHAT WENT RIGHT THIS WEEK:

Obviously, making the spotlight was very welcome and brought us a little boost of views, so thanks again! Other than this, we finally received a call today concerning the grant we didn't get, and managed to have a more in depth overview of what every judge thought of our project and why it wasn't selected. Apart from the fact they all mentionned our characters really should have been Canadian Olympians (just kidding ), the general concensus was very positive and they all thought the film shows great potential and is technically impressive. It just isn't the kind of story they want to finance. Oh well.

WHAT WENT WRONG:

Not much, except for the fact we're starting to realize we'll have a hard time getting some money from studios/producers so we're thinking about the Kickstarter option more and more seriously. I'd be very interested to know if any of you have experience getting funds for a short through crowdfunding and if they have any general tips for us. We're thinking of asking something like 5k to pay for the music and sounds.

SHOW AND TELL:

As always, we have a new update on our production blog.

This time around, we made a short demonstration of how we animated our painted clouds using simple camera projections. Here's the direct link to the video: https://vimeo.com/67759727
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frotze
I'm curious to know how far you'd have been willing to change your REVERSION story yourself. Did you apply for any grants while doing it?


Well the first one was a student thing.. because we made it primarily to learn how to do this thing.

But I think outside a certain "ring" of core story elements, I wouldn't mind.
Let's say if Heckler & Koch wanted to be all the weapons? No problem.

We'd happily re-render everything with CAD image-derived H&K weapons.
The obstacles there would be different.... since I think a lot of teens and young people saw REVERSION.

If Cisco wanted their logo to be on every time the heroine used wireless (the helmet apparatus)... Then yes.. that's cool... We'd have to think about how to do it without it being so "front and center".. but that would be fine by me. It doesn't change the plot...

However, say, it is core to our concept that the heroine was affiliated with the "evil Corporation" in the story... if someone wanted THAT to change... Then that would be a problem

Basically something that wouldn't affect plot I wouldn't mind.

And a lot of other people don't mind.

Oracle's Cloud Service went the extra mile for their Iron Man 3 tie in:
http://www.oracle.com/us/ironman3/index.html

Basically this is because Oracle would love to be associated with high-tech billionaire Tony Stark. A lot of this thing is based on "Points by Association", and the fact that any amount of money they can donate to anything or to any promotion is tax deduction for them.

As for the Olympic team suggestion, I wasn't sure if it was as simple as re-mouthing words and adding references in earlier scenes. I think if there was a different core and that was established already, then yes, you won't be able to re-purpose them into Canadian Olympic athletes.

But if this is one of those "media res" stories (the film begins with the prelude to the plane crash or something) and nothing was established beforehand then yeah, you can slowly build them into Canadian Olympic Athletes via references... that is... again.. unless it is IMPORTANT that they be something else.
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"Your most creative work is pre-production, once the film is in production, demands on time force you to produce rather than create."
REVERSION
 
Old 06-06-2013, 02:15 AM   #8
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Hello all; just wanted to say that I have been very busy cutting rocks the past 2 weeks and have not really been on the internet that much. I would say it's going well; started with 4 tons and I'm well over 1/2 done so this is great. It's actually quite fun; the "textures" of this material are outstanding; stuff I have seen in banks and casinos; very high end; fun to work with.

I did get the voiceover file from the artist and will be completing another clip hopefully by end of next week.

But I was almost getting distracted by ANOTHER pile of rocks as I got an email from Unity saying they were offering the pro version for $75. a month... hmmmm... interesting...maybe later...

As far as sponsors, product placement and the like I suggest you check out the documentary "The Greatest Movie Ever Sold"; here's the trailer on YouTube http://youtu.be/T4Ng2P3zxfM and it's available on Netflix.

I like the sponsorship model. Banner ads are intrusive and when they're served by 3rd parties using javascript you can be revealing alot of data about yourself often without knowing it. I would be OK with this but the vendors don't PAY for this data; they only pay for clicks. Convenient.

I was a Yellow Page salesman and have a background in marketing in the ski business; Blackcomb in Whistler and Tremblant. My skis and golf clubs were sponsored back in the day. The sponsorship model is pretty common in the resort business and something I am comfortable with.

Anyway, like I said I hope to have a new clip released end of next week and will release some updates soon. I am glad to see this thread hanging in there and wish all the creators the best of luck getting to where they want to be. Some great artwork coming out.
 
Old 06-06-2013, 03:57 AM   #9
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CONCEPT NAME: Soliloquy of a Madman

WEBSITE: www.soliloquyofamadman.com

CATEGORY: Games (PC, MAC, Linux)

PROJECT DESCRIPTION:

Within the depths of his own mind, a man seeks the answer to an unknown question. Facing fragmented thoughts, haunting memories and reflections of self, the actions taken will lead to enlightenment or self-destruction.

STATUS NUMBER: 4

START DATE: January 2013

ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE : Q4 2013 | Phase 1 | Prototype & Design Doc

PROJECT GOALS:

To create my first independent video game by myself and earn at least one year's worth of living expenses. My first step towards running a small indie game studio.

WHAT WENT RIGHT THIS WEEK:

I could finally afford to buy a Unity Pro license which helped unlock a bunch of the post-processing effects I need to pull of the visual style. I worked away at building the first rough pass for the full style transition from self-destruction into enlightenment.

I also had my first initial meeting with my sound designer (who is volunteering his time for the prototype) and went over what his audio system can do and how I could potentially use it. He also showed it to me working in another game he's working on, Armillo, which was super helpful to see/hear it in action.

WHAT WENT WRONG:

Nothing really went wrong this week.

SHOW AND TELL:

Video of Character Morphing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRcQ8Nf06UM

Character - Neutral


Character - Enlightenment


Character - Self Destruction
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:30 PM   #10
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It would be nice to get sponsors.

Quote:
As far as sponsors, product placement and the like I suggest you check out the documentary "The Greatest Movie Ever Sold"; here's the trailer on YouTube http://youtu.be/T4Ng2P3zxfM and it's available on Netflix.


Personally I have no problem with sponsorship. I mean if a character in my story is drinking a bottled water and Ozarka was on it that would be fine. I drink Ozarka anyways.

Our characters can live in a world like ours.
I look at our highlighted IP above. If those guys live in the real world those shoes would have a brand on them. Even the most generic shoes are a brand of some kind. I see one character wearing Sketchers and one wearing Dock Martins.

I see what CG Padiwan is saying.

It would be interesting to get sponsorhip though and probably have its pros and cons.

What do you think?

CGPadiwan. Quick question. How many views has your film gotten?
 
Old 06-06-2013, 03:31 PM   #11
Frotze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banman7
Our characters can live in a world like ours.
I look at our highlighted IP above. If those guys live in the real world those shoes would have a brand on them. Even the most generic shoes are a brand of some kind. I see one character wearing Sketchers and one wearing Dock Martins.

I can agree with that.

What I have against brand placement in this case is that would detract from the sense of a timeless legend and instead make it feel like it's a true and factual retelling of something that really happened in the real world. There are quite a few details in our film (which we haven't showed yet) that would just make these brands feel out of place.

I'm not against inserting brands in general, just not in this one.
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
What I have against brand placement in this case is that would detract from the sense of a timeless legend and instead make it feel like it's a true and factual retelling of something that really happened in the real world. There are quite a few details in our film (which we haven't showed yet) that would just make these brands feel out of place.


Makes good sense. Even though I believe sponsorship is cool and can have some advantages I also think it should not be forced and must come organically. If it detracts from the message or makes it out of place than it ends up simply being a sell out.

So I feel you on that. It should just fit and not be forced just for promotions sake.

So how do you feel you can capitalize on the short you are making.
I feel your work is beautiful but when developing IP I don't see how it could go commercial other than the beauty of creating a short.

Don't get me wrong I think we should all tell our stories but being able to capitalize on it can allow us to tell all our stories and do what we love.

I think of Osamu Tezuka. He wrote and drew all the days of his life. He didn't have to become the Doctor his parents wanted him to be. Instead he used his time to create but he could only truly dive in because that is what he did for a living.
 
Old 06-07-2013, 12:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banman7
CGPadiwan. Quick question. How many views has your film gotten?



Around mid 30 thousands with our "small" YouTube launch, which is honestly not enough to attract a sponsor with. Unless somehow it is "forward loaded" (ie: you were commissioned to make something for them like in the case of Orbit Gum and DumbDumb).

There are things I am doing in this regard, but nothing I feel comfortable yet with announcing since I don't know yet if they will work. And by work I mean.. works for sponsors and works for the story.

REVERSION is currently airing at our local anime channel with 700,000 viewers everyday and it's on a maximum 4 times a day. But the airings just started last month and we have yet to see the dynamics of how this would work in the future.

The concern about making things "too factual" or "too current" is a valid one... but also one I feel is of secondary concern. I think if you do it in a way that doesn't unnecessarily call attention to itself, then it's just "more detail" that shouldn't detract from your story.

The Japanese have been doing this for ages... each time it comes across as "more detail" like this:

Lupin the III's Fiat 500 association:


And in case you want to say: "But that's not an official association!"... There's also this:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/01/...-500-lupin-iii/

Lupin III's use of the Fiat 500 as the "incidental re-occurring prop" is similar to the Audi quattro that appears in Devilman... and I think that's as far as I'd take it.

There was also this somewhat catchy tie-in with Sony and Metal Gear:


But basically other than having them as "external elements" I probably also wouldn't be comfortable with them becoming THE story.
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REVERSION

Last edited by CGIPadawan : 06-07-2013 at 12:17 AM.
 
Old 06-07-2013, 06:57 AM   #14
pomru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banman7
Makes good sense. Even though I believe sponsorship is cool and can have some advantages I also think it should not be forced and must come organically. If it detracts from the message or makes it out of place than it ends up simply being a sell out.

So I feel you on that. It should just fit and not be forced just for promotions sake.

What timing! Production I.G and Microsoft just released this short for Ghost in the Shell ARISE, featuring... Surface tablets.

It starts out normally for product placement, but as the tablet becomes more prominent, it becomes more forced. Could this have been avoided and done more tastefully? Frotze's point about timelessness is a good one and definitely applies in this example, but I can't help think that if they had rewritten this short so the tablet was solely used by Togusa (the mulleted character) instead of the entire Section 9 squad, it could have been better.
 
Old 06-08-2013, 12:56 AM   #15
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Definitely would have done it so that it wasn't used that many times or by that many people.

It was used so many times that it no longer made sense in what context it was being used!

I'd like to think that as the artists you would have the responsibility to explain to the Sponsor how to do things in moderation! lol.

However, this is an example of "forward loading". OR this is exactly what's going to happen in ARISE and this short is just what happens when they cut all the scenes using MS Surface together.

P.S.: On the subject of Togusa being the only one using it.. that would have been nice... say you have this story where Togusa complains about being issued just this "stupid slab".... and he's the only guy using Surface and it turns out to be useful a couple of times... and in the end the tablet actually takes a bullet for Togusa that saves his life and Motoko tells him: "Still think it's just a stupid slab?"
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"Your most creative work is pre-production, once the film is in production, demands on time force you to produce rather than create."
REVERSION

Last edited by CGIPadawan : 06-08-2013 at 01:02 AM.
 
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