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Old 05-23-2013, 01:09 PM   #16
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He wanted it to be practical since it was in a way about a film maker who did just that.
 
Old 05-23-2013, 01:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke
You have been fooled...you just didnt know

I'm not saying that I can't be fooled. I'm just saying that it's really rare when I am. IMO, the most convincing effects tend to be the most unassuming ones. Even when something seems so outrageous that you're convinced that it must be CG, it pays to look for those small hallmarks indicating what's real and what's fake.

I won't disagree that the boundary between real and fake is getting blurrier by the day, but it's still not 100% gone yet. Plus, it pays to use some common sense now and then. Like the old saying goes, "If something looks too good to be true then it probably is." Improbable circumstances. Impossible camera angles. Scope that'd be cost prohibitive in practical VFX. It's not just how real something looks that tips it off as CG, but how believable it is when you actually engage your logic skills.

Again, I'm not saying that I can't be fooled by CG or extremely impressed by some batsh** crazy practical effect, but it's not nearly easy as it used to be. 23 years ago, when I first started doing CG, everything was impressive and believable - despite the fact that CG back then was more crude. Today, knowing what I do, I look at things a bit differently. It's harder to believe in magic once you know how the magician does the tricks and manipulates the audience. I think that it's a bit easier if you both want to believe and just stop thinking about the logistics and mechanics of it all.
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:54 PM   #18
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Cool

I bet the most didn´t knew that some aliens in Prometheus were not CG, but animatronics

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Old 05-23-2013, 04:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookepuss

I won't disagree that the boundary between real and fake is getting blurrier by the day, but it's still not 100% gone yet. Plus, it pays to use some common sense now and then. Like the old saying goes, "If something looks too good to be true then it probably is." Improbable circumstances. Impossible camera angles. Scope that'd be cost prohibitive in practical VFX. It's not just how real something looks that tips it off as CG, but how believable it is when you actually engage your logic skills.


In the 'larger' shots, where the use of CG is obvious because of the shot, and not the subject of the shot, I agree that somenoe in the industry can pick out things (where the camera would be cut, where a digital double would come in, etc), but its the shots where the use of CG doesnt even enter into the picture that are amazing.

Things like the CG flies in Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, or Patton Oswalds deformed leg in Young Adult...

"“Because the shot was close-up and intimate,” continues Raff, “the leg had to move realistically as Patton rolled around on the bed. Since we shrunk the limb quite a bit, we also had to recreate everything that was under his leg as he moved on the bed’s surface including ruffled blankets and other items.”

Watch that scene, and say that the work there isnt 100% photorealistic.

My point isn't that CG is perfectly able to replicate reality-its that it does it more often than you realise.
 
Old 05-23-2013, 04:29 PM   #20
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Exactly...I think "supportive" CG is very hard to notice because you're focussing on the characters.

Best example, for me, are the street scenes at night from Zodiac where pretty much all the buildings are CG in some shots. Since you focus on the taxi car and the characters you're completely sold to this CG environment.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:41 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookepuss
I'm not saying that I can't be fooled. I'm just saying that it's really rare when I am. IMO, the most convincing effects tend to be the most unassuming ones. Even when something seems so outrageous that you're convinced that it must be CG, it pays to look for those small hallmarks indicating what's real and what's fake.

I won't disagree that the boundary between real and fake is getting blurrier by the day, but it's still not 100% gone yet. Plus, it pays to use some common sense now and then. Like the old saying goes, "If something looks too good to be true then it probably is." Improbable circumstances. Impossible camera angles. Scope that'd be cost prohibitive in practical VFX. It's not just how real something looks that tips it off as CG, but how believable it is when you actually engage your logic skills.


I don't think it really matters as much as some people suggest. If you have a dinosaur or an alien or something, no matter how good a job you do, people know it's not real. When I'm watching things like that, I'm appreciating the artistry of it, the inventiveness of the design and animation, as well as how effective it is in the context of the film. Whether I'm fooled by the reality of an effect or not, there's always suspension of disbelief.

Then there's the more subtle effects, things that exist in reality, but have to be faked for whatever reason. The main thing there is that they don't draw attention to themselves. There's a lot of hidden artistry that goes into that. You watch something like that over and over, and there'll often be something that sticks out. It takes a lot of finesse. Once you know it's fake, it's hard to accept it as real. But you watch it purely in the context of the film, and there's so many other things you're following and keeping track of you're just not going to notice every little giveaway.
 
Old 05-23-2013, 09:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules123
I was thinking in Hugo, the automation ("An automaton is a mechanical human being or animal that historically worked via clockwork mechanisms because it predated electricity and the electric motor,") had to be CG, or at least parts must have been.

But it was all mechanical. The proof is here:
http://vimeo.com/33083224

Thanks for the link, I'm always fascinated by clockwork and hats off to whoever decided to do this practically. When I saw this it reminded me of Antonio Diavolo from "Learned Pigs and Fireproof Women" I saw back in the 80's. The quality is very low but good enough to watch it.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:28 PM   #23
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Most people don't realize just how much in modern ads are CG. Pretty much all car ads, and pretty much all product displays at the end.

I'd be shocked if somebody had never been fooled by cg at this point. There are so many small, nuanced things done in film now that honestly I don't know how you could possibly know are cg.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:51 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael5188
Most people don't realize just how much in modern ads are CG. Pretty much all car ads, and pretty much all product displays at the end.

I'd be shocked if somebody had never been fooled by cg at this point. There are so many small, nuanced things done in film now that honestly I don't know how you could possibly know are cg.


To add to this, the cars in almost all car brochures now are also CG.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:57 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGIPadawan
To add to this, the cars in almost all car brochures now are also CG.


That's probably true. One of my Dads friends used to be a photographer for Renault Ireland, taking shots of the cars for brochures. Now it is all CG done in some other country and they drop the cars into scenes shot in the target markets for the brochures.
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:11 AM   #26
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Well, if I weren't looking for it, I don't think I'd notice most of the VFX in these series of scenes. Stargate Studios do some amazing stuff that just blends in.

http://vimeo.com/20541169#

It doesn't seem like a high budget show either or a genre that needs it. Some cool stuff though,

Jules
 
Old 05-26-2013, 05:31 PM   #27
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in one of my all time favorite movies "escape from new york", snake flies a glider into new york and has a wireframe of the city on his screen. the whole shot was actually a scale model of the city and workers spent weeks lining all the edges of the buildings with flourescent green strips of tape, in which the set was illuminated underblacklight. pretty cool.

http://www.google.com/search?q=esca...2NpJLu4CVSEM%3A
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:49 PM   #28
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Oh, the squirrel in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory? ha ha

I AFAIK it was a combination of both. I remember watching the making of.

A comment from youtube:

"Rather than rely on CGI, Burton wanted the 40 squirrels in the Nut Room to be real. The animals were trained every day for 10 weeks before filming commenced. They began their coaching while newborns, fed by bottles to form relationships with human trainers. The squirrels were each taught how to sit upon a little blue bar stool, tap and then open a walnut, and deposit its meat onto a conveyor belt. Burton said, "for the close-ups and the main action, they're the real thing."
 
Old 05-27-2013, 12:43 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules123
Hi,

Now that CG is getting so good, I'm often guessing if something is CG or not when I watch scenes in movies.

I was thinking in Hugo, the automation ("An automaton is a mechanical human being or animal that historically worked via clockwork mechanisms because it predated electricity and the electric motor,") had to be CG, or at least parts must have been.

But it was all mechanical. The proof is here:
http://vimeo.com/33083224

Got any other links either way that could be CG or real, where on first viewing the audience might have got it the wrong way around?? Be fun to see some.


Cheers,
Jules


I held that thing in my hands
Of course there was the digital version as well and they used one or the other depending on the shots needs.
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Old 05-27-2013, 04:36 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael5188
Wow, amazed that it actually draws the entire image, that's really cool.

I'm still blown away by what the animal trainers were able to get the ape in King Kong to do. When I watched the behind the scenes footage I was scared for the actors in the t-rex costumes who had to fight a full grown silverback.


Bwahahahaahahaahah! thank you. I just had to most hilarious image in my head of that actually taking place.
 
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