Don't you feel cg 3d is too demanding?

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Old 04 April 2013   #16
I think the new tools and possibilities coming up are what makes this field so interesting.

On the other hand yes it can be demanding. I barely have time to look into new tools as my job keeps me so damn busy (which is good I guess). I'm trying to dedicate as much of my spare time as possible to look into new stuff but the life outside vfx eats up a good portion of that too.

I basically have to wait for the time between jobs to bring me up to date.
Of course you see new stuff during the job but not s much as I am wishing to.

Andre
 
Old 04 April 2013   #17
Originally Posted by Andrewty07: if you don't truly love it

How can you say you truly love it? Would you do it if you'd have an unlimited financial backing? I thought I loved it (liked it?), but I can't really say. I just can say for sure it's a pretty nice job, but it's a lot about money and being "not disgusting". Working in a shop or many service jobs is quite harder and has zero fun.
It's just your passion may not pay as well, or you simply may not be up to time if you're old enough to change jobs. It comes to a question if you really do what you want, but how can you tell what you really like, if you're not a professional in many fields, which is not realistic to expect.
It's one thing modeling cubes on weekends, and another being a professional. A professional enjoyment is quite another thing, as most of people know. Is enjoyment really important to being professional? Should you love you job or simply be fine with it?
I'm just curious, do other people, who find cg enjoyable, enjoy other life activities and hobbies to the same extent? because it's the case with me. I can enjoy many things as well, and I can't say for sure cg is really what I'd sell my soul for. While being 20 it seems a bit different than now. But yeah, it's still a great job no question about it, if to compare to others.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #18
When I start focusing too much on CG, then yes. It's very easy to get caught up in the thinking that you have to learn every new technique, or style, or software, etc... There is a never-ending journey of learning out there for you if you want, and speaking personally, it can cause you a lot of stress/anxiety.

On the other hand, I've learned that if you separate you're job from your life, there's a lot less stress. Treat the CG world as just your JOB. Leave work at work and when you leave the studio, don't think about it. It sounds like you may be starting to get burned out.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #19
Originally Posted by mister3d: Would you do it if you'd have an unlimited financial backing? .

If you can't say yes to this, then why do it? Seriously, there are so many less stressful and demanding ways to make the same level of income.
For me its YES . I wish I could no longer do other peoples works and ideas. If you can't sa yes to it, this sort of work will burn you to a crisp.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #20
I certainly would be occupying my time with 3d work, especially if money wasn't an issue. It's just one of those things in my life that I can spend hours doing without realizing it (in a good sense).
 
Old 04 April 2013   #21
Originally Posted by mister3d: Don't you feel cg 3d is too demanding? You need constantly to learn new programs, and perfect your skills. It takes so much time and efforts. Do you feel it pays off?


Hah. Try to be a programmer these days, especially in WebDev. A project that takes a couple of months to finish is already outdated before it's even released - and I am NOT exaggerating. On the other hand, I strongly believe humans are curious by nature and possess an inherent desire and capacity for learning new things, so if you enjoy what you do then you'll always want to continue learning new things about it and it will never feel like work for you or tire you out.

Of course, there are times when for one reason or another you feel exhausted and even in doubt, but everybody has these moments, no matter their profession. Just take a break, and if you still have these doubts afterwards, maybe the reason lies elsewhere - sometimes the working environment or the kind of projects you work on can make you hate the job you used to love and feel like it's too demanding and not worth pursuing - but then it's probably time to change the workplace, not the profession.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #22
My problem isn't so much with the 3D or any of that, its the subject matter knowledge that is difficult to keep up with. I have to learn so much on how things work/operate. Some days I feel like I am an engineer or architect.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #23
Originally Posted by fuss: Hah. Try to be a programmer these days, especially in WebDev. A project that takes a couple of months to finish is already outdated before it's even released - and I am NOT exaggerating. On the other hand, I strongly believe humans are curious by nature and possess an inherent desire and capacity for learning new things, so if you enjoy what you do then you'll always want to continue learning new things about it and it will never feel like work for you or tire you out.

Of course, there are times when for one reason or another you feel exhausted and even in doubt, but everybody has these moments, no matter their profession. Just take a break, and if you still have these doubts afterwards, maybe the reason lies elsewhere - sometimes the working environment or the kind of projects you work on can make you hate the job you used to love and feel like it's too demanding and not worth pursuing - but then it's probably time to change the workplace, not the profession.


This. To take another example, my dentist probably graduated more than 30 years ago, and personally speaking I'm quite glad that he's kept up on current trends and is not still using the tools and technologies he learned back then. You can probably say the same thing about any profession.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #24
Originally Posted by mister3d: Don't you feel cg 3d is too demanding?

CG is what I like to call an interdisciplinary art. You have to be a painter, sculptor, engineer, doctor, photographer, actor, fashion designer, and so on. It does demand a lot from you. However, the good thing is that you don't have to learn it all overnight. Learning CG is an incremental process. You get better with each new work. Whether or not it's all worth it really depends on how much you love it and how much effort you're willing to put into getting good. Like any art, you have your high and low points. However, like any art, CG is something that can bring you immense pride and a sense of accomplishment. You won't necessarily get rich, but that's not why you got into CG anyway, right?
 
Old 04 April 2013   #25
Originally Posted by fuss: Hah. Try to be a programmer these days, especially in WebDev. A project that takes a couple of months to finish is already outdated before it's even released - and I am NOT exaggerating. On the other hand, I strongly believe humans are curious by nature and possess an inherent desire and capacity for learning new things, so if you enjoy what you do then you'll always want to continue learning new things about it and it will never feel like work for you or tire you out.

Yeah, you guys are screwed.

At least in Film I got to get by with C++ and Python for a long while now, and both Maya's API and OGL have been so stuck and sclerotic for so long there's hardly any need to learn anything new

Well... I was introduce to boost a few years ago, that was nice. High point of my programming life as far as rate of change goes, I guess
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Old 04 April 2013   #26
Well, let me add another factor to this that maybe some of you guys (or gals) can relate to.

Kids.

I'm wondering, out of all the people that love it and can keep up with learning new software, outside of work, have kids and a family to deal with?

For myself, I'd love to have a job where I could sit at a computer and learn Mari or Houdini at a professional level. But at this moment I don't. When I have to go home to just a girlfriend at this point, without kids, I barely have enough time to push myself with the tools and programs I already know. Let alone learn new software.

To the OP, I definitely understand your point when something happens and everything in your life is put into perspective.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #27
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: for others it might be the sense that moving on to something else instead of further on you leave one thing for another with a sense of missed accomplishment.

I worked as a texturer, then modeler, then a bit of viz (for a year), and now another cg job. I never, ever, felt "this is mine". That's why I never can stop, now I think maybe it's lighting which will make me feel this is what I need.

Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: That's why fundamentals and technologies are a better approach than techniques, you don't risk the latter, very little withers away when you move on or sideways.

Just phoned an art teacher, for 50$ I can attend twice a week drawing classes yay. Hopefully it adds some fun to sitting with the monitor.

Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: At the end of the day it's a state of mind IMO, for some temporary, for some longer term. There is nothing wrong with it, plenty people have quit the industry on those grounds and are happier for it (just as many not so much though ).

Make sure it's not just a phase or the need to refocus and change how you learn rather than resisting the learning itself before you decide based on that feeling though.


I always enjoyed music. I mean, I still play half an hour\hour a day the piano, and I have 86% of musical hearing accuracy (which means I can identify musical excerpts amongst similar with slight differences. 90% is something incredible). I can easily play by ear. I also enjoy singing, and some other stuff of artistic kind. It all makes my soul sing. I never feel anything like this doing cg. But hell, who doesn't enjoy those activities?
As Leigh thinks anyone can become as good as her, I somehow doubt it. When I compared myself to other people singing, I was surprised how bad people can be. I didn't realize what I have is a gift.
Some people think life is "all equal", like people experiencing the same amount of happiness etc. It's true some people think so. Isn't it outrageous? It's simple so much not true. Life is very unfair in this regard. I'd think if many people could live another lives for a week, they'd be totally devastated how shitty their life is. I'm always thinking about such things, and many people say it's strange. "Don't think about the past, don't compare to others". I always seek for alternative way.
Though, I must admit, many people are not happy with their lives, if not most, for this or another reason. When looking at them from the side, it's obvious many are gifted, but not in areas they're into. For example I have a colleague, who is constantly into some kind of pyramid, some kind of hierarchy for no apparent reason. First I though it's about money, but then I saw it's not. It's just some kind of power pushes him into this, his will to "conform" to the hierarchy. And if in his life there isn't, he will find it, whatever shit it will be. Be it church, or financial pyramid, or bitcoins. This will never stop.

I still kinda regret i wasn't given to music school and feel grumpy to my parents about it. Now I hit my 30's and it comes to my mind. But then I think, how hard it will be for me to become a musician making money with it. Or do I really want making money with it, whereas I can make it with cg.
How many jobs are enjoyable? To me I felt there are activities, which are closer to our "primitive" being, which can give us more feeling of accomplishment. I can't imagine someone sitting in the bank saying "do you want to open the deposite" all day feeling happy about it, or "welcome to costco i love you". Many jobs are like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8zNsUTWsOc

Originally Posted by fablefox: The question is, when do you actually finally say 'enough is enough' and try to focus on 'life' instead of 'success'. Time is limited.

There is an article on Yahoo recently:

http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advi...-143425114.html

Looking back and looking forward, due to circumstances and other reasons, I think for me personally, enough is enough. Its fun to dream, but reality is another.

Looking at how experts and old hand being treated (including at Disney), and other articles mentioning the state of the industry, it going to stay as a hobby. I don't know if I'm still sad the the loss of my dad (over here you actually carry your father body into the grave, being one of the son). But after awhile, I realized that the world have changed.

It just changed.


I spent 10 years in cg already. I can only say mainly positive things about it though. The job itself is good mainly, or it's I've been lucky having such clients and studios. It's all what you compare it to. So, for those starting I'd say go for it. You can choose between working on-site and freelance, or you can start your own IP developing. Another thing in Ukraine I never say anyone got rich working for someone else. You always get the same fixed $. So you can be this or that, but good luck getting rich. i don't know how it's in London or other centers (I hope it's better), but not being able to buy yourself a flat in 5 years is a bad sign (well, you actually can in Ukraine, but that's it about it for 5 years, if that's the only thing you're saving up. Though it's more to d with Ukraine than cg). So, I'm judging from my perspective living in a poor country. But, if to compare to other "visual" jobs (illustration, web-illustration, etc), it's far more rewarding for me personally, anf generally pays better. So the choice was easy.
The problem I see being "successful" doesn't mean being happy. I can call myself successful in 3d, for what it's worth. Everything I did paid off. When you push your thing, then like a miracle you find your place in the market, like it have been waiting for you. I would really encourage any aspiring artist to continue therefore, especially if you have some artistic or technical background.
It's just when I discovered other things in life, it keeps me thinking if it's the only way and the best way to live? Especially i like eating cakes all day and watching tv.

Originally Posted by pipdixel: I never use 10% of my total skills on real jobs. They all ask for a different part. The only time I use my full skill set is for my own projects. And honestly, if I didn't do my own projects, I'd never push myself at all. Well, I'd also have left this crazy industry long ago. Easier ways to make a better living, but I love it and would be doing it for myself anyway. So why not make some money.

To me it definitely helped and does after working in a bit different areas. I even can't imagine how I could work without multiarea knowledge. And such companies like Crytek don't hire a single-tasked person any longer. A certain trend...

Definitely I'd say to anyone starting, get a solid, a very solid education! Spend 5 years drawing and developing your creative vision, it's a huge investment, which can make you rich developing your own products, and not just making something for companies. I regret I can't make a solid concept design, I need to learn heaps to make it. If only I'd know how valuable it may be. You can learn anything in 3d, but you will be still a "interpreter", not a creator. A bad concept design always was my main problem.

Originally Posted by pipdixel: On a side note, the people that hire us rarely know what we actually do. If you don't know one small aspect , like say, I don't do character rigging....well, how can you be an expert? Because I know the other 90% pretty damn well and you don't need it for this project haha. Its the strange mentality of people with the purse strings.

For a current commercial work (not my short), I use 8 programs for my pipeline. It's kinda weird and fun at the same time. I just realize I couldn't make it without years of experience, my head would simply blow. And, I still don't know rigging and animation, which is really needed for a proper understanding. So I'm nowhere near expert, just a starting one.

Originally Posted by Charkins: There are a lot of conditions that contribute to stress or success, but I would guess that CG isn't any more demanding than any other industry as long as you're clear on expectations and goals.

That's interesting, how can you be clear on expectations? When you start, you really see in in another light, and I'm sure it's for most people. Doubtfully people think "I will be that guy sitting in a shady office all day getting checks to pay for my family". People see it as dreams of creating worlds, experience, emotions. But it winds off I think. Isn't it? Though for many people it would be a sheer success. I can't really say, if it's a good thing or bad, or what you should expect from cg.

Originally Posted by Lagavulin16: On the other hand, I've learned that if you separate you're job from your life, there's a lot less stress. Treat the CG world as just your JOB. Leave work at work and when you leave the studio, don't think about it. It sounds like you may be starting to get burned out.

Indeed if you're working for several months, it becomes almost automatic (hopefully happens soon). But for example I'm thinking about taking drawing classes, how it counts to the job? Is it a part of it or not? Though I hear you, definitely working full-time and learning cg-tools is hard. I've been through this when being 20-22, and it's ineffective, and you barely sleep. Bad choice.

Originally Posted by pipdixel: If you can't say yes to this, then why do it? Seriously, there are so many less stressful and demanding ways to make the same level of income.

Like what for example?
Originally Posted by pipdixel: For me its YES . I wish I could no longer do other peoples works and ideas. If you can't sa yes to it, this sort of work will burn you to a crisp.

But it's not 3d, it's a concept part.

Originally Posted by fuss: Hah. Try to be a programmer these days, especially in WebDev. A project that takes a couple of months to finish is already outdated before it's even released - and I am NOT exaggerating. On the other hand, I strongly believe humans are curious by nature and possess an inherent desire and capacity for learning new things, so if you enjoy what you do then you'll always want to continue learning new things about it and it will never feel like work for you or tire you out.

Definitely programmers have a much more demanding state, from what I've seen. That's why they were getting 3-weeks holidays 2 times a year, not once a year.
The positive thing about cg is when you're after 50, i will keep you young by that you get lots of new information. Definitely a great job for retirement, if it ever happens to cg guys (I think it isn't). It's so different to being thrown away by 55, saying good-bye and "starting a new life". People of that age and any other are in no way outsiders any longer, but the same equal competitors, which is fantastic thing of our time.

Originally Posted by rhinton: Well, let me add another factor to this that maybe some of you guys (or gals) can relate to.

Kids.

God's forbid kids in Ukraine. But nature goes on. I just hate this idea here. I'm quite repelled by the idea of having a family in Ukraine, as I went through sheer poverty in my childhood, having both brother and sister. I wouldn't want it to anyone. And yes, women steal so much time, especially if you let them.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #28
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: Yeah, you guys are screwed.

At least in Film I got to get by with C++ and Python for a long while now, and both Maya's API and OGL have been so stuck and sclerotic for so long there's hardly any need to learn anything new

Well... I was introduce to boost a few years ago, that was nice. High point of my programming life as far as rate of change goes, I guess


Actually, I like the constant change (isn't that an oxymoron?) in this job, because it gives me a good excuse to try and learn new stuff all the time. Though when I think about it, I got into programming as a kid to make demos and games for my friends and I'm not sure how I ended up developing applications and websites 20 years later... In fact, just as mister3d, I'm at a crossroads of sorts right now, too, thinking about switching careers... I just might check for myself how much OpenGL changed over the last 15 years, the math I guess stayed more or less the same, and I do miss the opportunity at my current job to use Python. You certainly have the more interesting job of us two, I always wanted to become some sort of a graphics programmer professionally (and look what I ended up doing ).
 
Old 04 April 2013   #29
This happens in just about any trade, that feeling of being tired of it all. I live it presently in IT and I lived it previously when I was working in ship building...

It's mostly due to the fact that we live in a competition based society. We all compete against one an other and so, we must keep on improving if we don't want to end up in the ditch. Competition isn't bad per se, since most innovations comes from it. But when it is taken to extreme it does have an impact on our live. I may be a dreamer, but I would like for once, if we could as a society, try a more cooperative way of doing things.

PS: I'm a total noob when it comes to 3D modelling and arts, so I don't really know the reality that you all live in. But like I said, it's a universal thing.
 
Old 04 April 2013   #30
Originally Posted by fuss: Hah. Try to be a programmer these days, especially in WebDev. A project that takes a couple of months to finish is already outdated before it's even released - and I am NOT exaggerating. On the other hand, I strongly believe humans are curious by nature and possess an inherent desire and capacity for learning new things, so if you enjoy what you do then you'll always want to continue learning new things about it and it will never feel like work for you or tire you out.


+1 I am a web developer myself, and if you thought 3d changes quickly: think again! CG evolves at a leisurely pace, and that is why I enjoy working and keeping up in it. Compared to web dev which can be overwhelming at times - and I teach that stuff! ;-P
 
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