CGTalk > Main > General Discussion
Login register
Thread Closed share thread « Previous Thread | Next Thread »
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-09-2013, 05:31 PM   #1
Artbot
Mostly Harmless
 
Artbot's Avatar
CGTalk Forum Leader
portfolio
Richard Green
The Man Who Sold the World
USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,122
Harvard Business Review's tips for dealing with creative people, and it's appalling

Some supposed-PhD at the Harvard Business Review claims to be an expert at dealing with "creative types" and lists his "Seven Rules for Managing Creative People." Not surprisingly, it is insulting, condescending, and arrogant. This is apparently what they are teaching "business types" in colleges these days. Normally commenting on this type of drivel wouldn't be worth the keystrokes, but this is the Harvard Business Review and not Joe Blow's Rant Blog.

Here is a creative's point-for-point response to this.
__________________
www.artbot.com

 
Old 04-09-2013, 05:43 PM   #2
leigh
blahblah
 
leigh's Avatar
CGSociety Staff
portfolio
Leigh van der Byl
A cog in the wheel
Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 29,791
What incredibly abysmal "journalism".
__________________
leighvanderbyl.com
 
Old 04-09-2013, 06:00 PM   #3
PerryDS
Everything Creative
 
PerryDS's Avatar
portfolio
Perry Shulak
Contractor, self-employed
Critical Fusion Inc
Edmonton, Canada
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 761
Send a message via MSN to PerryDS
Generalizing a discipline accomplishes absolutely nothing.
__________________
Perry Shulak
Design, Illustration, writing and interactive media
www.criticalfusion.com
www.perryshulakcreative.com
 
Old 04-09-2013, 06:07 PM   #4
RobertoOrtiz
[Forum Leader]
 
RobertoOrtiz's Avatar
CGTalk Forum Leader
portfolio
Roberto Ortiz
Illustrator/ Modeler
Washington DC, USA
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 31,900
Send a message via MSN to RobertoOrtiz
What scares me is that the HBR is not a small time blog.

They are the real deal.
__________________
LW FREE MODELS:FOR REAL Home Anatomy Thread
FXWARS
:Daily Sketch Forum:HCR Modeling
This message does not reflect the opinions of the US Government

 
Old 04-09-2013, 06:36 PM   #5
Crotalis
Expert
portfolio
Jason
Designer
upper uncton ..., USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 437
And it was written by a man with his doctorate no less. He apparently specializes in "Meta-profiling". There's a link to his site under the blog post. I'm guessing the test says something like "Are you bi-polar, moody and jealous of your ideas? Do you prefer to be told you're great rather than be paid well?" Then of course if you answer "yes" you are clearly creative and if you say "no" you are probably more suited for management. ugh ...

The rebuttal was pretty good though. We should post the link to it in the comments section of the HBR blog ...
 
Old 04-09-2013, 06:46 PM   #6
trancerobot
Art Compiler
 
trancerobot's Avatar
portfolio
Christian Storay
BIM & VDC Modeler
USA
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 605
Quote:
A final caveat: even when you are able to manage your creative employees, it does not mean that you should let them manage others. In fact, natural innovators are rarely gifted with leadership skills. There is a profile for good leaders, and a profile for creative people and they are rather different. Steve Jobs had better relationships with gadgets than people, and most Google engineers are utterly disinterested in management.


In addition to everything else wrong with this article...

It's just crazy he uses Steve Jobs as an example of someone who couldn't lead. That guy was a bastard sure, but leading is something he did very well. He also was a good judge of character, and left his company in good hands when he couldn't run it anymore.
 
Old 04-09-2013, 06:46 PM   #7
scrimski
antieverything
portfolio
J. Schreyer
head->wall
ARRI Berlin
Berlin, Germany
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,979
That guy is the biggest client from hell. Evahh!

Last edited by scrimski : 04-09-2013 at 07:02 PM.
 
Old 04-09-2013, 07:10 PM   #8
mlager8
Lord of the posts
 
mlager8's Avatar
portfolio
Matthew Lager
3D artist
Oceanside, USA
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 875
What a tome of realization and self discovery this article has been for me! I finally understand my longing for a regiment but complete lack of attainability due to my easily generalized psychological makeup that I share with all creative people; For example I know I love aged poterhouse (i think, I cant really remember) but I only have ever had it once before... At first I though maybe I cant afford it because I make so little (not that this is a problem, on the contrary it kind of motivates me), then I though maybe it's because I have such a sense of self worth that my ego wont allow me to sample the same thing twice. I even had the idea the lack of creative people around me forced me to come up with my own self deprecating agenda to avoid the things I love in attempts of sparking some despair fueled creative epiphany. Thats not it either though... I finally realized its just because I cant find the right restaurant ever again because I'm too stupid too take the same route I took the first time and always seem to get lost.

Wow how enlightening that was, thanks Dr. Tomas!
__________________

 
Old 04-09-2013, 07:34 PM   #9
JWRodegher
-
 
JWRodegher's Avatar
portfolio
Jonathan W Rodegher
Lead Lighter
Brown Bag films
Dublin, Ireland
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,293
Send a message via AIM to JWRodegher Send a message via MSN to JWRodegher
Here's a pretty cool answer, though it would be worth to quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krissy
'Creatives' aren't space aliens. What they do is a job. A skill. A trade like any other trade. Treat them like any other skilled employee. If you have a worker who's being a weird, temperamental baby who you need to tip-toe about, that's not a creative, and that's not a professional either. That's an artsy fartsy person acting out how they think creative people should act and that shouldn't be tolerated in a work place. That's not how work gets done. An actual creative professional does not need to be coddled. They devoted a great deal of time to hone their skill, and will use it appropriately for appropriate pay, like every single skilled person with a job. Speaking as someone who manages both creative and non-creative people successfully, this was like reading absolute drivel. This just presses the ridiculous stereotype of the 'artist' that needs to be in this state of 'starving artist'-dom and can only work when 'inspired.' Ridiculous. A doctor doesn't only administer medical attention when 'inspired' and a creative doesn't only create when 'inspired.' An actual, professional creative person can create at any time because they have the skills to create. That is what they trained in, the ability to create. Like the doctor trained to administer medical care. If you're working with someone who is supposed to be a creative and somehow fits any of this articles descriptions of a creative, you did not hire a professional, you hired a temperamental child.
 
Old 04-09-2013, 09:33 PM   #10
marcuso
infinitesimal
 
marcuso's Avatar
Marcus Ottosson
London, United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 533
I don't know what is seen as dismissive or oblivious about his article. If anything, the point-for-point artist response only strengthens the points he makes as it strikes me as just a childish response to being generalized, and childishness is one thing I do find more common in creatives, being one myself.

I'd argue for the creative reader being responsible for putting negativity where there is none.
__________________
The Pirate
Duplicator Series
 
Old 04-09-2013, 09:47 PM   #11
darthviper107
Expert
 
darthviper107's Avatar
portfolio
Zachary Brackin
3D Artist
Precocity LLC
Dallas, USA
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,931
Some of it's not wrong, but there's some serious issues, especially that creative people should be paid less so that the most can be gotten out of them. Plus the sweeping generalizations, that somehow creative people are so much different from everyone else. I don't know about you, but I'm not bipolar and I require a ton of structure-humans aren't even built to crave change so why would creative types be any different? It sounds like someone who really doesn't understand people and they shouldn't be misleading others into treating creative people like that.
__________________
The Z-Axis
 
Old 04-09-2013, 09:56 PM   #12
Kirt
Expert
 
Kirt's Avatar
CGSociety Member
portfolio
na
USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,606
That reads like an Onion article. Are we sure it's not satire? A procrastinator's April Fools joke, maybe?
 
Old 04-09-2013, 10:24 PM   #13
Crotalis
Expert
portfolio
Jason
Designer
upper uncton ..., USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 437
Quote:
I don't know what is seen as dismissive or oblivious about his article. If anything, the point-for-point artist response only strengthens the points he makes as it strikes me as just a childish response to being generalized, and childishness is one thing I do find more common in creatives, being one myself.

I'd argue for the creative reader being responsible for putting negativity where there is none.


You're joking right? The artist response is a solid piece of actual satire created to make a point. That is very different from an off-the-cuff childish retort.

Also, you seriously see nothing wrong with phrases like "they should be paid less" and "they should be surrounded by semi-boring people"? I shouldn't even have to mention the money thing and pretty much every ad/creative agency in the world appears to disagree on the second point. Also, a truly professional article like this would have started by defining "creative". It did not. Of course then the author would have had to also define "semi-boring" (I'm just going to assume he meant accountants - there - I've just done as much proper "journalism" as this PhD author). Then of course, he switches from "creatives" to "corporate innovators" like that's who he meant to be talking about all along. Of course again, the fact that everything was kept as broad and generalized as possible allowed the author to avoid the need for a properly structured piece.

No, the entire article is dismissive and completely ignorant of how "creatives" actually function in a real world environment. If someone who is supposedly a "creative" themselves cannot see that, well, I feel sorry for them ...
 
Old 04-09-2013, 10:32 PM   #14
Per-Anders
helper bunny
 
Per-Anders's Avatar
CGTalk Forum Leader
portfolio
Per-Anders Edwards
Developer
The Third Party
USA
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 12,712
Captain 1980's : Dealing with creative types is easy, you treat em like mushrooms...

Seriously, was the original Harvarsed article meant to be satire? I honestly couldn't tell. But then it's Yale all the way here...
__________________
The Third Party | Homepage | My Reel
"You need to know what you're doing before you start, and to start because you need what you're doing."
 
Old 04-09-2013, 11:36 PM   #15
fablefox
Lord of the posts
portfolio
Azhar Mat Zin
Fable Fox
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by trancerobot
In addition to everything else wrong with this article...

It's just crazy he uses Steve Jobs as an example of someone who couldn't lead. That guy was a bastard sure, but leading is something he did very well. He also was a good judge of character, and left his company in good hands when he couldn't run it anymore.


Not to derail, but personally I think not. While I don't care much about the Map debacle since I already have GPS phone that I use, the wifi issue after 6.0 upgrade and how they handled it later is just sad. Its the kind of thing that can get people fired under Jobs. Understand that ipad only have two version, wifi+mobile and WI-FI ONLY.


EDIT:

And I hate hate hate point 5 of the article.

And point 3 is basic management. There are reasons for Management, Executives, Officers, and Clerks. You do things best done by you, give it to your subordinates others.

And I hate point 6. I hate surprises, especially in working condition.

Last edited by fablefox : 04-09-2013 at 11:42 PM. Reason: more info
 
Thread Closed share thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.