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Old 03-19-2013, 03:28 PM   #46
Dillster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbnRanger
...and now no rocking out on your iPhone/iPad)....


Does anyone know what that means? I've never heard that before.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:12 PM   #47
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So I looked into it and it really is just a request now. So they have no legal base to control your use of 3DCoat or what you post somewhere.
The only thing they control is their Gallery and how 3DCoat is represented on their official site.

Maybe I'm wrong, because I didn't read through all of it, but there seems to be no restriction in any way. So all these horror-stories are old news.
The creator is still a hardcore christian and thinks all of us "have responsibility before God", but hey ... whatever? As long as he doesn't harm anyone and keeps improving a great program I really don't care if he has a christian background or prays to the holy Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:25 PM   #48
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This whole 3DC religion/message debate is ridiculous. It really is a non-issue.

As an atheist, I can tell you that it may annoy me when people try to "convert" me or impose their beliefs, but I'm not exactly going to go in a rage either. Everybody's entitled to their opinion on the nature of existence. I may not agree with Andrew's stance, but I defend his right to speak his mind.

Like others here, I've had the pleasure of dealing with Andrew online over the years. He's certainly a passionate individual, but he's not really intolerant or closed-minded. If anything, he's extremely open to community input. He's by no means inflexible. I've seen him change his mind many times, in favor of 3DC and the community.

Honestly? If you don't want to listen to his message then you don't have to. While he'd probably prefer that you did, and took it too heart, he's not going to go after you if you pursue your own path with 3DC. He's much more tolerant than that. He really IS a nice guy, not some faceless corporation.

On top of that, how many of you REALLY have the urge to model a demon humping a mutilated baby? If you do then you're one sick puppy. You're likely to offend atheists and religious types alike. The truth of the matter is that most of us aren't going to stray too far beyond the norm. Granted, normal for CG tends to involve lots of big breasted warrior women, monsters, and gun toting power fantasies, but I'm sure that Andrew knew this going in.

Having said that, here's my take on 3D-Coat:

1. The feel of sculpting within 3DC is almost akin to working with really wet, soft clay. Some people love it. Some hate it. Personally, I think that ZBrush's tools are more balanced. ZB's virtual clay is a bit more realistically stiff, yet pliable imo.

2. ZB has much deeper modeling/sculpting options. That's not to say that 3DC can't get the job done. It just doesn't have nearly as many brushes or base options.

3. Retopology in 3DC is tops. I love it. I also own TopoGun, but find that to be far too twitchy. 3DC, on the other hand is generally more stable. 3DC also gives you more options for getting the job done. My only complaint is that automatic retoplogy is still too quirky to be useful in generating final topology. The results it produces aren't always what you'd expect or desire. You do have to manually massage the mesh now and then.

4. UV mapping is pretty darn nice. It's not a one-stop solution for UV mapping. It won't replace Maya's built-in tools or anything, but it IS a good supplement. The pelter is intuitive, stable, and fast. It also tends to pack UVs rather efficiently too.

5. 3D painting is nice. It feels like a natural part of the experience. 3DC won't replace Mari or Photoshop, but it definitely remains an option for getting a strong texture base in place. As with UVing, I see 3DC's painting tools as a supplement instead of dedicated replacement.

For me, except for retopology, 3D-Coat won't replace any of my current tools. However, it does make for a good overall companion to the other tools in my personal workflow.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:39 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillster
Does anyone know what that means? I've never heard that before.


Sure, just google

mayor bloomberg + nanny state + loud


Sorry for partay rockin...
 
Old 03-19-2013, 04:59 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tama
Sure, just google
mayor bloomberg + nanny state + loud

Just a quick aside on this.

I'm a New Yorker. I totally get what Bloomberg is trying to do. His intentions are sound. It's his actions which make no sense. We, as a country, are too fat. As a country, we also destroy ourselves and our neighbors with habits like smoking. Our bad tech habits tend to adversely affect everybody else's way of life and create dangerous situations. I'm in total agreement in that.

HOWEVER, I feel that Bloomberg doesn't understand that there's a limit to what government can control and regulate. As an adult, I believe that I have every right to be a chain smoking fatty who never unplugs from his earbuds. It might be self-destructive, but that's my right. So, the idea that government wants to try and replace my parents or substitute my judgment for theirs is offensive.

The government already has too much say in our lives as it is. They can ban stuff like big sodas in buildings or programs that operate on their dime, but private businesses and individuals should be off-limits. At no point should government will wholly replace personal choice. I'm not promoting anarchy, but personal responsibility. Bloomberg's not my daddy. I get what he's doing. I feel for his motivations. They're honest and sincere. The actions, however, are misguided.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:24 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookepuss
This whole 3DC religion/message debate is ridiculous. It really is a non-issue.

How would people react if Autodesk had a voice "we support Muslims, so please respect etc"? How about car manufacturers? It all stirs a lot of unnecessary feelings. Religion is a personal and sensitive thing, and while I understand the good intentions (most people have good intentions mostly, or they think so), it's quite dangerous putting moral obligations on anyone, especially if you sell a product, yet you have competition. I think the right place for this would be on a personal page of the creator.
 
Old 03-19-2013, 06:45 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tama
Sure, just google

mayor bloomberg + nanny state + loud


Thanks I found it. It's not a ban, but a health awareness campaign about loud music. Does anyone really need this? I mean doesn't every child on the planet learn from an early age that loud = hurts our ears?
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:55 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mister3d
How would people react if Autodesk had a voice "we support Muslims, so please respect etc"?

None of it is going to directly affect my work. I personally don't care either way. As long as the app does it's job, I couldn't care less if they supported the clubbing of baby seals. I know that's insensitive, but all I care about is the end result. I don't give two craps about a company's politics.

Quote:
Religion is a personal and sensitive thing

Ideally. Yeah. If everybody respected everybody else's personal space then there'd be no conflicts on this issue. I would love a day where nobody shoves a flyer in my face or tries to convert me. Real life doesn't work like that though. Everybody's got an agenda.

Quote:
it's quite dangerous putting moral obligations on anyone

If you've ever followed the 3D-Coat forums you'd know that there's no obligation to do as Andrew says. He's not going to sue you. He's not going to yank a license. His statement might be a bit preachy, but he's speaking from the heart. You can choose to ignore him if you want.

The fact is, Pilgway isn't Autodesk. I don't hold Andrew to the same standards for behavior as I would Autodesk. The voice of Pilgway is largely that of one man, not some corporate body. Pilgway is going to be a reflection of Andrew. Andrew is a deeply religious guy. I'm not sure that you can separate the two as you would in a corporate environment. Andrew's got a spiel? Let him say his piece. As long as it doesn't affect the product, I'm not gonna get my boxers in a bunch.

Again, Andrew is not imposing any sort of strict moral requirement on its users. As with everything he does, he bent to the will of the community - and probably the lawyers. You can do whatever you want with 3DC, as your conscience permits. If his opinion so greatly offends you, don't use his product. That'd be a shame though. 3D-Coat is a great product.

Personally, I'm not offended. It's gonna take a whole lot more than a bit of preaching to hurt me. I'm way more offended by the way other companies treat their users when it comes to sales, support, DRM, and quality control.
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Last edited by cookepuss : 03-19-2013 at 07:05 PM.
 
Old 03-19-2013, 06:59 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillster
Thanks I found it. It's not a ban, but a health awareness campaign about loud music. Does anyone really need this? I mean doesn't every child on the planet learn from an early age that loud = hurts our ears?

Bloomberg's in love with regulation and legislation. Again, his heart's in the right place, but he's always a short step away from a ban or fine. He took the Giuliani approach of strong leadership and a cleaner, safer NYC to its overbearing extreme, often at the expense of personal liberties. There's such a thing as too much control.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:55 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookepuss
None of it is going to directly affect my work. I personally don't care either way. As long as the app does it's job, I couldn't care less if they supported the clubbing of baby seals. I know that's insensitive, but all I care about is the end result. I don't give two craps about a company's politics.


Well that's where people like me differ from people like you; for me, my ethics play a huge role in my consumer choices, which is why I only buy cruelty-free products, why I don't buy products from certain countries, and why I won't give my money to someone who behaves in a bigoted fashion. It's not about "raging", as you put it - on the contrary, it's the most non-confrontational, peaceful form of protest: abstinence from participation.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:02 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookepuss
None of it is going to directly affect my work. I personally don't care either way. As long as the app does it's job, I couldn't care less if they supported the clubbing of baby seals. I know that's insensitive, but all I care about is the end result. I don't give two craps about a company's politics.

well thats unfortunate, but I for one do care where my money goes and what it supports.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:16 PM   #57
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I kind of like the baby seals too and I wouldn't knowingly be handing money over that might be used to buy clubs for beating them over the head.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:26 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookepuss
This whole 3DC religion/message debate is ridiculous. It really is a non-issue.

As an atheist, I can tell you that it may annoy me when people try to "convert" me or impose their beliefs, but I'm not exactly going to go in a rage either. Everybody's entitled to their opinion on the nature of existence. I may not agree with Andrew's stance, but I defend his right to speak his mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookepuss
None of it is going to directly affect my work. I personally don't care either way. As long as the app does it's job, I couldn't care less if they supported the clubbing of baby seals. I know that's insensitive, but all I care about is the end result. I don't give two craps about a company's politics.


Wow, I disagree with this so much my eyes hurt.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:17 PM   #59
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Yikes!

The thing is, if I based all of my purchases on the ethical behavior of companies, I'm not sure I'd be able to buy anything. No company is 100% ethically clean. Dig deeply enough and you'll find something to challenge, something that offends you morally. Companies are made up of people and people are fallible.

Suppose an Adobe exec made some off the cuff racist statement. Am I supposed to stop using Photoshop? Should I maybe not buy "x" Autodesk product because of something ethically stupid they did? That's not realistic.

Having a set of ideals is nice. I do my very best to respect others, their ideas, and way of life. At heart, I'm a good person with what I'd consider to be a solid moral center. However, if we're being realistic, I can only control what's in my direct sphere of influence. I cannot control others, what they think, or how they conduct their business. I'm only human. As a human, I've got to earn a living.

It's too easy to say, "Company 'x' did WHAT?!? I'm going to boycott their app!" It's just not practical to do it, not when your livelihood depends on that app. I know that it sounds bad to hear this, but that's the reality of the situation. I've got to eat. I've got bills to pay. I've got a roof to keep over my head.

Think about this: How many of you would really opt for unemployment and starvation just to take a moral high ground? How many of you risk the financial stability of your children just to make a point? Much easier said than done.

Look. You can throw stones my way all you want, but there it is. At the end of the day, I can only control what's in my direct sphere of influence. The closed-minded thinking of some idiot execs? I can't control that. I just can't. What I can control is how I live my life. Like I said, I do my level best to respect those around me, give to those in need, and live a kind, good, and honest life. THAT is well within my control.

Last edited by cookepuss : 03-19-2013 at 10:53 PM.
 
Old 03-19-2013, 10:18 PM   #60
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deleted by me.

<< Don't want to fan the flames. Please don't judge me poorly though. I'm really kinda nice. >>

Last edited by cookepuss : 03-19-2013 at 10:50 PM.
 
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