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Old 03-18-2013, 05:02 PM   #16
Dillster
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Dylan Saunders
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladimirGolovin
.......(10 years * 260 workdays per year * 4 hours per day = 10 400 hours. See, not 10 000, la-la-la! No punches for me!)


Thanks for doing the numbers. Now I understand, 10 year apprenticeship.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:35 PM   #17
Zykras
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Stanislaw Menschow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillster
Thanks for doing the numbers. Now I understand, 10 year apprenticeship.



All jokes aside, don't take this "rule" serious please ... ever.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:45 PM   #18
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Exactly. Just imagine everyone on Earth needing to eat 10000 yoghurts before they stopped throwing it in their face. It's different for everyone and everything
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:07 PM   #19
tmg
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Thanks for the huge response guys and girls. I think I do understand

I have learnt alot sinch I first started, which was about a decade ago, but I haven't really pushed it very much, it was more a hobby. The more I did it though and the amount of fun I had - plus the reaction from everyone when I showed them what I did - kind of of fueled the fire.

I will use the advice to aspire to, but not compare myself to the poeple who are really awesome. I will use it as motivation Looking forward to doing some really good things with the skills I want to hone and learn more about.

I've never done character modelling - I'd love to though . I've mostly done architecual and automotive modelling/animation. But I would like to expand and branch out to learn other skills.

Thanks everyone
 
Old 03-18-2013, 07:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael5188
Judging yourself by yourself sounds like a good way to stagnate.

If you never push yourself then you're absolutely right. However, with each new project, you should always be looking move out of your comfort zone and to ultimately one up yourself. While it's true that you don't live in isolation and that your work will have to stand next to somebody else's, you can't judge your growth by the milestones set by others. It doesn't work that way.

Let me put this another way.

I've got a 5yo nephew and an 8mo niece. I can't look at my niece and say, "Why can't you do 'x' or 'y' yet? Your brother could do that when he was your age." It's not fair. Will there eventually be sibling rivalry to drive them forward. Sure. Competition with your peers is important. It's an an excellent motivator. However, she's going to develop at her own rate. He'll develop at his. Similarly, I may pick up something way easier than you, but I might also bang my head up against a wall over something that everybody else finds insanely easy. We're different people

The race for personal growth is really one you run against yourself. Nobody's going make you learn something any faster than you can. You're ready when you're ready. It's not just about being better than your peers, although that is important too. It's about being better today than you were yesterday. There's a reason why they call it personal growth.

I guarantee you. You won't stagnate as long as you're willing to leave your comfort zone. Keep challenging yourself. Eventually people won't just notice how much better you've gotten, but they'll also begin compare others to you.

This is why these contests are so important and why there's so much subtext.

When you're a newbie, you know that you're not going to win. That's not your goal. You just want to improve. In essence you're competing against yourself. The contest provides you with a structured environment to do just that; Some people require that external structure more than others though.

When you get to a point beyond competence, you're not just competing against yourself. You're also a real part of the race. You're not just in the competition for fun. You're not just looking to raise the bar for yourself, but also aiming to raise it for others and challenging them to raise it for you. Self-competition never stops. It's just how you utilize it that changes.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookepuss
Let me put this another way.
...



Ok, you're analogy doesn't really work for me since a child's development is all about watching others and attempting what they see adults or older siblings do, so they are, in a sense, looking at the incredible artists on cgtalk, and striving to be like them, not ignoring them. But I get your basic point. And I agree. Really our two points don't conflict in this regard.

What I meant is using others as a reference for where you want to be at some point, or as a reference for level of quality, I think is very important. So as you said in the first post and I disagreed with, I think using others as a benchmark can be very valuable. Your nephew seeing others walking as something he should be able to do will encourage him to stand. He might not be ready to walk, but he won't let falling discourage him, he'll continue to try until he reaches that level.

Honestly I can tell you when I'm at a job surrounded by artists at my level or lower, I tend to get comfortable, and stagnate as an animator. But when I'm the worst animator on the team, suddenly I'm pushing myself to grow and learn and improve.

All I'm saying is sure, personal growth, etc. is all nice, but don't shut yourself off from comparing your work to those better than you and trying to determine why yours just doesn't look as good. It might feel crummy sometimes, but feeling crummy about your work motivates you to improve it. (plus it shows that you're training your eye and can see flaws in your work.)
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:49 PM   #22
cookepuss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael5188
Ok, you're analogy doesn't really work for me since a child's development is all about watching others and attempting what they see adults or older siblings do

Patterned behavior is critical toward certain childhood development. I won't disagree. However, it's not like you can take an average kid, point him at his smarter brother, and say, "watch". It doesn't quite work that way either. A child's development is equal parts nature and nurture. The parents and teachers can have a strong effect, but biology always plays its part too.

My younger brother's a smart guy. However, he's always had to work much harder to learn things that would come easily to me. Tutoring him would help sometimes, but I could never force him to learn any quicker than he was ready. In college, I led several study groups and found the same exact thing to be true. You can't squeeze blood from a stone and you can't force a flower to bloom before its time, metaphorically speaking.

CG artists can certainly benefit from online education such as Digital Tutors or Gnomon, but no two artists will learn at the same rate or in the same fashion. We're different people. If we were all truly made equal then these resources wouldn't be necessary.

Quote:
All I'm saying is sure, personal growth, etc. is all nice, but don't shut yourself off from comparing your work to those better than you and trying to determine why yours just doesn't look as good.

I didn't say to shut yourself off from others. I even acknowledged that competition and aspiration can be strong motivators. However, when you train for the Olympics, you can only train your muscles. You might be able to pick up a trick or two from the next guy, but your growth isn't so extensively externalized. You can and should be aware of the competition, but your growth will always be personal and iterative. There's a bar being set for you by others and then there's the bar that you set for yourself.

Other artists' achievements should be a source of inspiration, not frustration.

That's about all I have left to say on the topic. Agree or disagree as you so choose.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:18 PM   #23
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10,000 hours ... Outliers ... Malchom Gladwell

Uses Bill Gates as an example of those who put time in to get ahead.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:18 PM   #24
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