Is This a Lie?

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Old 03 March 2013   #61
People attacking the work of others by calling them liars only expose their own lack of skill and imagination. Also, while offensive, I would try to think of it as a compliment, ESPECIALLY when it comes from professionals in the same field - obviously one's work is so damn good and transcending the critics' understanding they can't even fathom how to achieve a similar effect. Kudos to the guy who created the short (with Blender! Go Blender ).
 
Old 03 March 2013   #62
I agree, the whole discussion is strange. No one has anything to gain. If you say, did over state your abilities, somehow, its always figured out with the next job. So, no worries, who cares what people say, its the doing that matters. This is a very weird thread to have gotten so many comments..

I remember there was this picture of a Chinese man back in the day, before Zbrush, before GI, before mray/vray, when realism through modeling and lighting was near impossible and only few did it. This CG image appeared and it was pretty amazing. The person who made it didn't full explain how he did it. Basically, it was simple geometry with a projection photo on it. So what right? Well, back then it launched this witch hunt, someone found the magazine photo he used, matched up the highlights to prove it wasn't really a texture, everyone ripped this guy a new one. He was like, whoa, didn't realize I did something wrong here...wasn't fair in today's standards at all. The issue at hand was this, it looked like what he did was easily achievable, and at the time it wasn't, his model/image could not be used at ANY other angle, or under ANY other lighting and a huge push in the industry, at the time between CG folks anyway, was to prove "production" ready techniques. What he did wouldn't work in a practical way and people were out to prove it. Why? The idea he didn't do it "right" and probably didn't want him getting credit for not doing it "right".


Sounds so trivial these days, and honestly, who cares.

The idea of a CORRECT method to achieve art is a dumb one. Art is art, you make it for whatever you want to make it for. I'm glad so many people dabble and work on CG now, its made for so many new voices , new ideas, and the dropping of any sort of "correctness" .

Not saying this is in ANY way related to the art piece that is the subject of this thread, for that I think its a motivated person who worked really hard on his own project and shame on anyone who thinks differently who wasn't involved in it.

Last edited by pipdixel : 03 March 2013 at 12:42 PM.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #63
seems legit to me. The fellow who posted it on youtube has a few beakdowns of some of his shots. Good for him for getting it done, one man productions are hard enough when doing it on your spare time.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #64
Originally Posted by Zarathustra: ...Now as this person admitted, they have gaps in their knowledge and abilities but cleverly hid those as best they could in the final work...you can shore up those gaps and become more well rounded with less gaps but again, this is hard to do, especially on your own, and so only a select few can do this. Such people are the exception, not the rule


Agreed. This fits in with the mindset of a learner and doer. There are a number of things at play, which come up as patterns.

My first take is rhe creator finished a project, and it took years. Very often a lot of people talk about doing this or that, but fewer actually have the conviction to stick through a project through all the hurdles. Like those home improvement shows, they install a show in like 1.5 hours, whereas you try it and the walls aren't squared and a pipe breaks off. It seems if I knew how much time a project is really going to take (at least about 3 times what you'd think) you'd probably never start. But that someone keeps climbing over each element of the 2 year obstacle course shows the quality of perseverance.

At the early stages you'll sell people TALKING about doing something, and things start to divide into camps, like in photography. One group quotes lens specs in minute detail, charging that X lens is garbage because another lens is .001% better. Meanwhile others take what they have, use that, and build on their learning an experience. Some have the drive to take the tools you have, and head out into the world, knowing you're somewhat unprepared, but will adapt and learn as you go. Others will PLAN for the perfect trip forever, and never leave the house. But the plan they spend years perfecting is the perfect plan... it just never gets implemented.

I had a photography professor advice the class "Film should flow through your camera like water." Meaning, you will learn more by doing, shoot a LOT, make a lot of mistakes. The only way you will build your experience is by risking repeated failure. A question to consider about a project isn't as much "as there flaws" but "Have I learned something to be able to do it differently next time."

It seems the path in the creative field, that what you make, and it seems great, probably in a year or two, your newer work with be better, and the previous great work will be full of flaws and things you would do better now. But to deal with this stream of minor regrets over old work, you make new work, incorporating what you've learned since then.

On the flip side, once you put your work out there, it opens it too criticism. So the creator will probably hear the comments of the gaps in his story, and that may be the motivation to address story aspects as well next time. People that don't integrate constructive criticism can be ignoring another source of feedback to improve. You can't please all the people, (and those with a unique vision shouldn't always) but feedback is part of the process too.

Another thing which is kind of funny is the "is it cheating" question... In movies and plays, from sets to special effects, it's ALWAYS about how to achieve the intended look as quickly as possible and move on. Sets would only be the FRONTS of houses, models were made to look good from a distance but you would be surprised how crude they looked close up, only the side facing the camera would be detailed, buildings would just be plastered or painted wood instead of real granite. Film, plays, and animation for creative storytelling, are not about physically constructing the set as a stone mason would expect. As a creative person, we might want to model every rivet on a ship, but a texture map might render faster and look just as good at the distance.

If the claim was the original film was made by 1 person in a week, from scratch, it would sound suspect, but he said 2 years. That doesn't sound like a shortcut. It sounds like the type of student of life and with learning and goals being a core to their life, which doesn't start or end within some 18-month certificate program timeframe, or a 4 year college degree. Self-motivated learners press on by themselves, even if they did get encouragement from teachers early on. They know being led by the hand will only last so long.

A lot of the people in this group have their own push to create and learn. You have to, just to keep up with changing software and new capabilities. All that on top of the drive to create things that did not exist. Somewhat the squabbling and doubts are part of creative community, although the creator probably already knows the flaws in his work and hopefully is devising ways to overcome them on the next project.
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Old 03 March 2013   #65
I'm more interested where the person can apply such a vest set of skills. As usually you make one task, or maybe 2-3 at best.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #66
Did anyone else think it wasn't even that good?
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Old 03 March 2013   #67
Originally Posted by axiomatic: Did anyone else think it wasn't even that good?


you must have really high standards for a one man project.

not that it's a bad thing. just saying.
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Old 03 March 2013   #68
To the original poster: why would you claim so surely this is a lie is beyond me. I'm glad most of the other posters here are rational and did not jump to this conclusion.
As many others have posted, this is within scope for a smart and talented beginner/hobbyist within that period of time, and shows a lot of potential. As a previous poster said, I wouldn't be surprised if this person went more towards .directing/producing, than specifically vfx or animation.
Funnily enough, posting this here has probably had the net positive effect of exposing this person's short to much more people than it would have otherwise, so I guess 'no press is bad press' and no harm done
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Old 03 March 2013   #69
I enjoyed his short. It should be enjoyed for what it is by all.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #70
Originally Posted by axiomatic: Did anyone else think it wasn't even that good?

Compared to what and seen by who though?
Seen by a bunch of VFX professionals and compared to Boyle's Sunshine, yeah, it's pretty dodgy
Seen by the uneducated and compared to the average hobbyist's project (when they even get finished) it's pretty good.

I would agree if you meant it's not good enough to raise the concern it might be a "lie", I already wrote my piece about that. It's fairly solid for somebody's first shot at the lot while learning the ropes of everything, crafts and arts at the same time, while doing it.
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Old 03 March 2013   #71
Quote: Did anyone else think it wasn't even that good?


Originally Posted by ragdoll: you must have really high standards for a one man project.

not that it's a bad thing. just saying.


Or been too lazy to read the other replies.
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Last edited by Artbot : 03 March 2013 at 04:54 PM.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #72
Originally Posted by fuss: People attacking the work of others by calling them liars only expose their own lack of skill and imagination.

Yeah you want to remember that this is an international forum so there are words that are offensive to native English speakers that are not always intended to be so strong by members writing posts from other countries.

The clip itself is pretty good, but you can see the hiding of the hands and feet in this drawing
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Old 03 March 2013   #73
Out of curiosity, for everyone that...judges(?) other peoples work. What's your criteria that needs to be completed or your base comparison? How do you rank someones creation?

So that everyone's on the same page, lets use this guys work as an example.

For me personally, when i judge someones work i use myself as comparison, since i am aware of my strengths and weakness in this field and i also have a general grasp of how everything is created from start to finish. Am i doing it wrong? What's your approach?
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Old 03 March 2013   #74
Originally Posted by ragdoll: Out of curiosity, for everyone that...judges(?) other peoples work. What's your criteria that needs to be completed or your base comparison? How do you rank someones creation?

So that everyone's on the same page, lets use this guys work as an example.

For me personally, when i judge someones work i use myself as comparison, since i am aware of my strengths and weakness in this field and i also have a general grasp of how everything is created from start to finish. Am i doing it wrong? What's your approach?

I never use myself as a comparison but what quality is available at the time of assessment. I really dislike the sensation seeker technique where the audience is supposed to take things like experience into account. We have a member here who made a whole animation clip with a straw held in his mouth for crissakes. The maker of the clip says he taught himself,.... so what? Most everybody here taught themselves most of what they know because the sheer volume of knowledge needed to pull of good work in an extremely competitive area cant be learned in any school. So with that out of the way you can look at a product the way potential customers will.

What is left over then?
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Old 03 March 2013   #75
Originally Posted by mantragora: Wait till UDK4 premiere. It will mark beginning of the end of animated movies made by big players. Next Shreck/Happy Feet/Cars/Whatever will be made in the basement by 14 year old kids that have nothing better to do in spare time.


Film is a making of many many very talented and skilled people.
They require so many skills, which yet require years to learn them and perfect them.
Those will still be some children amateur movies, no amount of technology will change that.
Next Shreck movie will be made by 14 year old kids... spare time... when they grow up!
Something like this, work by Phill Tippett:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKrXtshQ21w
Or Spielbergs Firelight, etc.
This youtube movie was inspired by works of Ray Harryhausen, who was inspired by works of Willis O'Brian, who was inspired by work of George Melies, etc.

There is a clay and stone all this time available, but how many Michelangelo's ?
Making great movies requires a lot of talent and experience and knowledge.
It looks easy when you see someone else do it.
Taking a scalpel with a hand doesn't make you a surgeon.
And if you make a wrong cut... it's much more obvious.


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