CGTalk > Main Forums > General Discussion
To minimize the ads you see on this page create a CGTalk account and log in HERE
Thread Closed share thread « Previous Thread | Next Thread »
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-14-2013, 01:58 PM   #31
scarywithoutfangs
New Member
portfolio
Desmond.G
Micronesia
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7
some small part of me hoping your next post will be like "ha ! i'll make you guys eat your own words here is the proof bam ! bam ! bam !, dont worry though we're still friends, cheers." but nope, you just keep digging deeper and deeper, till you hit the pipe gas and exploded.

 
Old 03-14-2013, 02:41 PM   #32
XLNT-3d
Be Water My Friend
 
XLNT-3d's Avatar
portfolio
Jon Anderson
Creative that gets stuff done
Stevensville, USA
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHibiki
Any school that is jeopardized by this should be closed.


At the same time, the schools are a business and where there is a demand or people willing to shell out major bucks, they'll find instructors and slap together some learning modules and when complete, wrap up your accomplishment up in a pretty little piece of paper

Most people need to be herded and led, fed and bedded to get through life. Only a few can bulldog through barriers and actually be self motivated go-getters. Sometimes not knowing limitations or having boundaries (I need college, I have to have "X" software", or some other blah blah major crapola excuse for why I can't), allows a person to excel. I've seen more people with a Master's degree say something can't be done a certain way, and a rookie who hasn't had some bullshit philosophy pounded in his/her head, actually accomplish the same task or something seemingly impossible.

Personally, I think the whole system has to be changed. The talent and passion for this craft has to be fostered before college and programs need to be developed to facilitate true creative growth before the institutions ruin them. Then the institutions have to find a way to actually have people figure things out and truly develop an intelligence and open minded approach to problem solving. I see more programs than are basically teaching color by numbers. Everything is mechanical, rigid, very unoriginal and uninspiring. It feels that the more programs and schools that start peddling this craft as a course of study, the worse the graduates get. Back when there were only a few programs, it seemed less of a problem. You couldn't even get into certain schools (Ringling and CalArts) unless you were actually talented. Unfortunately, even with talent, some people end up walking away from these programs because of the ridiculous cost of tuition.

So yeah, certain determined individuals could become very success and figure all this creative content creation stuff without a $100,000 debt and 4 years of bureaucracy.

Last edited by XLNT-3d : 03-14-2013 at 02:52 PM.
 
Old 03-14-2013, 02:51 PM   #33
Horganovski
Freelance Animator/Rigger
 
Horganovski's Avatar
portfolio
Brian Horgan
Graphite9
Dublin, Ireland
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgie
Where did he get the well-coordinated martial art fight motion-capture data? Is that in the online market somewhere?


There's loads of free mocap out there if you go looking, quality varies enormously of course. I find it funny almost that people are suspicious that he didn't do it himself, with the amount of free training available on youtube, vimeo etc I believe anyone with good self-motivation can create something like this in a couple of years if they have an aptitude for it. There's an ad for a school I won't mention that shows up in the 3D magazines most months with this tagline 'I couldn't believe I was modeling something like this in my first week at the school'. Beside this is an image of a robot clearly made up of a bunch of 3d primitives and a few deformers that anyone with a few hours of training or tutorials could make. The schools clearly have an interest in making it seem like 3D is somehow a dark art if you don't go to them for training but in reality it's anything but, I think we'll see a lot more work like the short this guy made (and better) as time goes on. Kids are often smarter than they get credit for.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 03-14-2013, 03:11 PM   #34
Georgie
Expert
 
Georgie's Avatar
portfolio
George (Dong-hoon) Kim
CEO, Digital Mirage
www.digitalmirage3d.com
Goyang, Korea (South)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horganovski
There's loads of free mocap out there if you go looking, quality varies enormously of course.

Hi Brian,
Please direct me to that specific martial-art-combat mocap data(s) supposedly used in Rosa. Otherwise, I would advised that you withhold your support for it. I'm experienced enough to be offered a TD position for mocap. I know what I'm talking about. And I've done quite a search for such mocap data to no avail. If Rosa is an exploitation of genuine artists' misfortune, I wouldn't like to tolerate it.
 
Old 03-14-2013, 03:21 PM   #35
leigh
blahblah
 
leigh's Avatar
CGSociety Staff
portfolio
Leigh van der Byl
A cog in the wheel
Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 29,776
You really seem to have quite a chip on your shoulder.
__________________
leighvanderbyl.com
 
Old 03-14-2013, 03:22 PM   #36
imashination
Expert
 
imashination's Avatar
portfolio
Matthew ONeill
3D Fluff
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 8,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgie
Please direct me to that specific martial-art-combat mocap data(s) supposedly used in Rosa. Otherwise, I would advised that you withhold your support for it.


Lol, you want him to trudge through 100's of websites looking for a specific set of mocap files because youre paranoid that a video some guy has produced puts some students and professionals to shame? why should he? If you think it isnt legitimate, *you* need to show the proof, not everybody else.
__________________
Matthew O'Neill
www.3dfluff.com
 
Old 03-14-2013, 03:24 PM   #37
Horganovski
Freelance Animator/Rigger
 
Horganovski's Avatar
portfolio
Brian Horgan
Graphite9
Dublin, Ireland
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,791
^ Don't have time to load all these into Maya and figure out which are good quality or not, but in just these few links I would bet there's something usable.

http://www.motioncapturedata.com/20...-data-from.html
http://www.motioncapturedata.com/20...ocap-files.html
http://accad.osu.edu/research/mocap/mocap_data.htm

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 03-14-2013, 03:38 PM   #38
teruchan
Skeleton Man
 
teruchan's Avatar
portfolio
Terrence Walker
The Last King
of Scotland
Shanghai, China
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgie
I'm sorry to disagree with you, teruchan, but I personally found it difficult to accept Rosa for what it's said it is--for lack of evidence. For instance, Where did he get the well-coordinated martial art fight motion-capture data? Is that in the online market somewhere?


Absolutely yes. When I was building my BVH library for Anigen Final Secrets, I once found a Japanese site that was full of karate motions. They had everything from two person fight sequences to single moves and even guys doing katas. That was all free. If you're willing to pay some money you will get much better stuff. iClone also has some good fight sequence mocap. Do a search. There are companies out there that do only that. You pay them for mocap libraries.
__________________
Terrence Walker
Studio ArtFX
Learn How to Make Your Own Animated Projects!
You don't need millions of dollars or major studio backing!!
 
Old 03-14-2013, 03:44 PM   #39
Georgie
Expert
 
Georgie's Avatar
portfolio
George (Dong-hoon) Kim
CEO, Digital Mirage
www.digitalmirage3d.com
Goyang, Korea (South)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by imashination
Lol, you want him to trudge through 100's of websites looking for a specific set of mocap files because youre paranoid that a video some guy has produced puts some students and professionals to shame? why should he? If you think it isnt legitimate, *you* need to show the proof, not everybody else.


It's what the creator(s) of Rosa should do. I'm always open to proofs.

@Brian:
Thanks, Brian, for the information. That's a good reference for future use.
Please have in mind, though, that Rosa features two participants' coordinated kung fu fight not karate nor just a "regular" fight.
 
Old 03-14-2013, 03:57 PM   #40
Pyke
White Zulu
 
Pyke's Avatar
portfolio
Christopher Bischoff
Lead artist & game designer.
The Brotherhood
Johannesburg, South Africa
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,554
Send a message via MSN to Pyke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgie
It's what the creator(s) of Rosa should do. I'm always open to proofs.


Thats not how the burden of proof works. The creators aren't accusing anyone of anything. YOU are.
If I say that YOU killed someone, it isn't up to YOU to prove ME wrong, its up to ME to prove that MY STATEMENT is FACT.

And there are lots of Mocaps of 2 people fighting (I have a few in my libraries), but the better artists will take 2 completely different motions, and remap them to work with each other. I have a guy falling over, and another mocap of a guy kicking. Put them together, and you have a guy dropping from a kick.

Honestly, fighting in MoCap is EVERYWHERE. Its the more mundane (natural looking) actions that can be difficult to find (crawling on the ground, climbing into a larger platform, jumping from a small ledge).
 
Old 03-14-2013, 04:02 PM   #41
SheepFactory
Expert
CGSociety Member
portfolio
x y
Canada
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 16,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgie
Hi Brian,
Please direct me to that specific martial-art-combat mocap data(s) supposedly used in Rosa. Otherwise, I would advised that you withhold your support for it. I'm experienced enough to be offered a TD position for mocap. I know what I'm talking about. And I've done quite a search for such mocap data to no avail. If Rosa is an exploitation of genuine artists' misfortune, I wouldn't like to tolerate it.



I am getting a migraine just trying to understand what the hell you are talking about. What exactly is your point here? That the Rosa creator broke into a studio and stole mocap files? He is lying about his expertise? how is he in any way shape or form a threat to cg school closing or studios going out of business?
 
Old 03-14-2013, 04:06 PM   #42
teruchan
Skeleton Man
 
teruchan's Avatar
portfolio
Terrence Walker
The Last King
of Scotland
Shanghai, China
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgie
It's what the creator(s) of Rosa should do. I'm always open to proofs.

@Brian:
Thanks, Brian, for the information. That's a good reference for future use.
Please have in mind, though, that Rosa features two participants' coordinated kung fu fight not karate nor just a "regular" fight.


Well, if you want get technical, Rosa doesn't feature a kung fu fight or any other named martial art fight. It features poorly choreographed "slapping hands" fighting performed by actors with very little, if any, stage, screen or real fight experience. It is far from something special. Even Max Steel, if you remember that old show, had better fights.
__________________
Terrence Walker
Studio ArtFX
Learn How to Make Your Own Animated Projects!
You don't need millions of dollars or major studio backing!!
 
Old 03-14-2013, 04:23 PM   #43
Zykras
Digital Explorer
 
Zykras's Avatar
portfolio
Stanislaw Menschow
3D Artist / Developer
Miysis
Brussels, Belgium
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 286
I don't know how you managed to NOT find fighting mocap data
There is so much out there, you only need some dedication to filter the crap from the good ones.


I think these examples just show how fast you can work if you're smart about reusing models, textures, mocap, etc. But there is a limit to this, you can't produce everything with this workflow.
And you absolutely need an eye for composition and camera-work. That's where both Rosa and this short stand out.
__________________
Passion is the key.
Miysis 3D
 
Old 03-14-2013, 04:26 PM   #44
Georgie
Expert
 
Georgie's Avatar
portfolio
George (Dong-hoon) Kim
CEO, Digital Mirage
www.digitalmirage3d.com
Goyang, Korea (South)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheepFactory
I am getting a migraine just trying to understand what the hell you are talking about. What exactly is your point here? That the Rosa creator broke into a studio and stole mocap files? He is lying about his expertise? how is he in any way shape or form a threat to cg school closing or studios going out of business?


Sorry, SheepFactory,
The discussion sidetracked, I'm afraid. The point of this thread was to discuss (1) why some would doubts other artist who are exceptionally talented (2) and how well-founded such doubts can be, and (3) how to build your credibility as an artist. I personally benefited from other artists' different viewpoints posted at this thread. Now I can understand why some are ready to believe and why some aren't regardless of who's right.
 
Old 03-14-2013, 04:43 PM   #45
WyattHarris
Daddy x 4
 
WyattHarris's Avatar
CGSociety Member
portfolio
Wyatt Harris
WyattHarris.com
Baton Rouge, USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgie
Sorry, SheepFactory,
The discussion sidetracked, I'm afraid. The point of this thread was to discuss (1) why some would doubts other artist who are exceptionally talented (2) and how well-founded such doubts can be, and (3) how to build your credibility as an artist. I personally benefited from other artists' different viewpoints posted at this thread. Now I can understand why some are ready to believe and why some aren't regardless of who's right.

That's what this thread was about? That's a long trip to get to that point.

I was mostly baffled by the odd accusation that someone making their own film would somehow hurt schools, who cares. There were an awful lot of people who created this business before there were any schools offering CG.

In the end there's a simple reason why most of my projects haven't been finished. It's got nothing to do with software, render farms, mocap data etc. etc. Its because I'm lazy and when I get home I'd rather put my feet up. Never underestimate what a driven person can accomplish. Especially in 2 years.

For Example
__________________
HMC: Model Collection
WIP: Harris Nut House
WIP: WarCraft Troll
wyattharris.com Dig it!

Last edited by WyattHarris : 03-14-2013 at 04:47 PM.
 
Thread Closed share thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.