Is This a Lie?

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Old 03 March 2013   #16
Originally Posted by mantragora: Look at Final Fantasy Spirits Within and compare it to Playstation 4 Deep Down presentation. Square Enix needed 900 Pentium 3 processors to make it. Now you have this in quality in realtime with probably toon of realtime simualtion possibilities that they couldn't do 10 years ago.

How many people worked on Happy Feet ? How many would work if they had already possibility to work in realtime engine that could deliver the same quality with both, graphics and simulations ?


OK... but think of it this way... with UDK4... say you want to make a set.. and it's the interior of the Sistine Chapel.... do you really think it makes a difference if you have 900 node render farm or UDK5 or 6?

Do you think replicating the interior of the Sistine Chapel takes any fewer artists today than it did when Square was making Final Fantasy Spirits Within?

Think about it.
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Old 03 March 2013   #17
Originally Posted by mantragora: Wait till UDK4 premiere. It will mark beginning of the end of animated movies made by big players. Next Shreck/Happy Feet/Cars/Whatever will be made in the basement by 14 year old kids that have nothing better to do in spare time.


This is so far from realistic it makes me cringe.
I was going to type a long response, but it's so wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start...
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Old 03 March 2013   #18
What he did isn't all that hard. There's no lip syncing, no facial animation. Very simple walk cycles. Just camera movements and lighting. Even the robot is a simple animation.
The modelling and texturing might take a while.
He just made a plan, stuck to it and finished it.
That's the hardest part.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #19
Let me chip in.

UDK came with a lot of tools. Texture generator, landscape and tree generation. And a lot of real time editing. This, combined with current character animation tools, and motion recording with IPI.

For those with skills, a lot of thing can be done. And there will be markets for such movie. Red vs Blue and the rest shows that there are market for this "machinima' things. Its not anything new. But with UDK, and CryEngine, and now even Unity demo their 'Butterfly Effect' that means we have move past Quake + FRAPS days.

What I don't get it is that why Blender didn't focus on machinima with their blender game engine, specially considering the licensing problem in creating games with it.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #20
Im really glad the the more level headed responses have come out of CGTalk. Something that really irks me is when artists post up their work, and people call them liars.
I have had comments on my YouTube channel, and even emails where people have actually taken time out of their days to tell me that Im a liar, and swear at me about my work.

This trailer is very impressive from an editing and visual point of view. I really love the camera work and lighting.
He clearly borrows from films like Alien, Sunshine, and 2001-and rather unashamedly so. Which to be honest, all of those films heavily borrowed from previous ones. There is a certain language that 'Space' movies have-certain shots that are shared among them, and this trailer uses them all very effectively.

I really dont see how a statement like "If his claim is not true, he would be guilty of robbing art/film schools of potential enrollees and possibly of robbing VFX/CG firms of potential clients as well. Here's a recent interview with him. Do you think he's lying? What do you think art/film schools should do about such claims?" (apart from the double negative) is even remotely in the correct ballpark as fair.

2 years is a HELL of a long time. I started my project 2 years ago with NO experience in game development, music, or sound design-and in that time have taught myself how to compose music, do a decent sound mix, animate for games, and program and script a game that has been given press along side some of the larger indies, and commercial games. People that don't think that something like this could be studied and recreated in 2 years are clearly terrible at time management.

A statement that someone made over on Reddit, when someone was asking about 'where to start' for learning an artistic endevour (I believe it was getting into VFX) is that "In 2013, you have the collective information of mankind at your fingertips. USE IT".
 
Old 03 March 2013   #21
Why would anyone think this is a lie? Rosa was done by a guy with LESS experience in LESS time if I remember correctly. Just like Rosa used Daz assets, this guy used Make Human. There is no real difference?

Get ready. We are going to see this more and more in the near future. What will iClone look like a year from now, with no end to canned mocap libraries, characters, props, sets etc. Someone mentioned UDK, and maybe they were joking, but we know that Valve Source Filmmaker and CryTek have things in the works. Soon people will be able to make some pretty spectacular stuff without themselves needing to be a modeler, texture maker, rigger etc. That time is fast approaching.
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Old 03 March 2013   #22
Originally Posted by mantragora: Yes, I believe and I'm not mistaken. Visualization takes a lot of time when you have just 4-16 cores with standard render engines. Now, when you have it realtime, that changes a lot of things. Another thing is realtime collision and destruction. There is a CryEngine plugin for car destruction that gives better results than 80% people here that don't have experience with destroying things would get if they do it with normal simulation that also takes time. Instead they can tweak it just on eye and don't have to wait hours for result.

Look at Final Fantasy Spirits Within and compare it to Playstation 4 Deep Down presentation. Square Enix needed 900 Pentium 3 processors to make it. Now you have this in quality in realtime with probably toon of realtime simualtion possibilities that they couldn't do 10 years ago.

How many people worked on Happy Feet ? How many would work if they had already possibility to work in realtime engine that could deliver the same quality with both, graphics and simulations ?


I'm going to take a wild guess that you've never actually worked on a single film. Suffice to say, you're so wrong that I don't even have the energy to point out the numerous reasons why.

To the original poster, why would he lie? And in what way would he have been "robbing schools" even if he had? Lots of people are self taught; in fact, amongst my peers in my age group and up, I'd say most of us were largely to entire self taught, simply because there weren't CG courses around before we got into the industry. And as for "robbing studios of potential clients"? That doesn't even make sense. Clients don't care how someone learned something.

What a strange post.
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Old 03 March 2013   #23
It is beyond me why anyone would think this is a lie.
He had enough time to learn the technical aspect and obviously has a talent for observing and adapting the visuals.
Modelling this environment is not hard and he cut a lot of time by using outside textures, humans and mocap. So this is nothing special in my opinion.
What makes this trailer good is his use of camera-work, colors and composition in the different shots. He obviously borrowed a lot from other SciFi works, but he was smart about it and used all elements to make it his own piece.
As JacO said, his strong points make him a director more than anything else.

@mantragora
Bad modeling, texturing, animation, composition, etc. still looks like crap with a renderfarm or realtime engine. It's not like you magically understand all concepts and workflows for a film just by having a realtime feedback.
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Old 03 March 2013   #24
Quote: My future plan ? I have no idea. I'm moving near Paris in June in a "formation center" (learning jobs). I may have spent a lot time practicing, learning and doing, I'm not necessarily planning to work in this industry, I don't want to be given a "role" (like modeler, or animator, or texturer, or else). To be honest with you, I just want to keep doing my stuff the way I like it, animations or images, feeling free to do what I want. I've been doing this for myself and I'm not really into showcasing. I don't even have a Facebook account, nor twitter and you've probably never seen me featuring any work on any forums because I always think my level isn't good enough, i never reach the perfection of movies and such. People did it for me, and I infinitely thank them for thinking it was something to share (I know I should be far more active in the community myself). I have already refused many offers of joining teams working on their own projects, and I'm sorry for this. CG is a very personal tool I wish to fully master one day. Like people paint, play the guitar, or .. dance, I just want to create things, I don't see this as a job or a money maker, I earn no money from this. People may find it stupid but money is not the goal I'm heading for.


That speaks a lot. Also about hes conserns about being able to do what he likes despite not being officially qualified...
 
Old 03 March 2013   #25
This industry is made of this.
..people who somehow can't differentiate the basic aspects behind everything they see.
It's disappointing if I have to ask myself what do people really knows.. about anything cg related.

The short has nothing to do with this controversy. It's the people, the observers.
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Old 03 March 2013   #26
Originally Posted by Georgie: Recently, a hobbyist has posted the following video and claimed that he has made it after a serious study of 3D for about two and a half years. If his claim is not true, he would be guilty of robbing art/film schools of potential enrollees and possibly of robbing VFX/CG firms of potential clients as well. Here's a recent interview with him. Do you think he's lying? What do you think art/film schools should do about such claims?

Interview: http://blendernews.org/xe/Feature_Articles/3761
the short: http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...d&v=slyeYA_67og


I find the whole notion somewhat offensive and disturbing. How would he rob anyone? And it's not like you need art/film school to create something good. Lots of people do it. So am I robbing someone by saying that?
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Old 03 March 2013   #27
I see a lot of technically simple, but well executed shots edited together. Theres absolutely nothing here which would suggest he didnt do the work himself, and surely if this were taken from a larger studio, somebody by now would have spotted the film it was from.

He said it himself, the things which would have been slow to do and difficult to achieve, he hid them in darkness or only used quick flashes for dramatic effect rather than long lingering shots which would give you a chance to study the imperfections.

Why work hard when you can work smart?
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Old 03 March 2013   #28
Originally Posted by azazel: I find the whole notion somewhat offensive and disturbing. How would he rob anyone? And it's not like you need art/film school to create something good. Lots of people do it. So am I robbing someone by saying that?


I agree, I also can't quickly think of a reason how he would be guilty of robbing schools of potential enrollees or studios of potential clients.
Especially if it's a lie?
If it's a lie, which I think it isn't, how would that lie make any difference from the truth?

Anyway, despite that it's well done, it's still not up to par with the industry as a whole.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #29
Originally Posted by teruchan: Why would anyone think this is a lie? Rosa was done by a guy with LESS experience in LESS time if I remember correctly. Just like Rosa used Daz assets, this guy used Make Human. There is no real difference?


I'm sorry to disagree with you, teruchan, but I personally found it difficult to accept Rosa for what it's said it is--for lack of evidence. For instance, Where did he get the well-coordinated martial art fight motion-capture data? Is that in the online market somewhere?

I rather took it as an exploration of other genuine artists' misfortune whose arts have been questioned. For instance, I won the Music and Sound Prize for my solo work "THE RETROSPECT." But some of the sponsor(s) for the CGChallenge--Stash Magazine, for instance--has not send me the prize they promised, nor do I see the usual "award winner" badge in my CGtalk avatar. (Maybe I'm wrong about winner badge thing policy, though.) So, if such claims are fabricated, they are hurting genuine artists as well.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #30
Originally Posted by Georgie: Recently, a hobbyist has posted the following video and claimed that he has made it after a serious study of 3D for about two and a half years. If his claim is not true, he would be guilty of robbing art/film schools of potential enrollees and possibly of robbing VFX/CG firms of potential clients as well. Here's a recent interview with him. Do you think he's lying? What do you think art/film schools should do about such claims?

Interview: http://blendernews.org/xe/Feature_Articles/3761
the short: http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...d&v=slyeYA_67og

Any school that is jeopardized by this should be closed.
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