SimCity DRM, what lessons to be learned?

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Old 03 March 2013   #61
Originally Posted by Meloncov: A fair bit of the actual simulation. Nothing that couldn't, theoretically, be done on an even moderately high end PC, but substantially more than computers on the lower end of the games system requirements could handle.



Did I just read this correctly? Are you serious?
Most modern Smartphones could run the simulation.
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Last edited by BoBoZoBo : 03 March 2013 at 03:38 PM.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #62
just to put to rest the whole... "it needs to be run in a simulation on our cloud servers" bullshit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/com...e_to_be_online/


sorry, but after the Spore let-down, i'm not giving them a pass on this one.
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Old 03 March 2013   #63
Originally Posted by tswalk: just to put to rest the whole... "it needs to be run in a simulation on our cloud servers" bullshit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/com...e_to_be_online/

sorry, but after the Spore let-down, i'm not giving them a pass on this one.


Of course it's total bullsh!t - The ISPs would cry foul if they had to transmit enough data only a supercomputing super server could simulate. Not to mention - how the hell are all the people who decided to pirate the game playing it?

If ANYTHING is decided server side, it's not because your home computer cannot handle it, it is because it is another (badly thought out) business decision to making sure you connect to the server.

"Maxis general manager Lucy Bradshaw said to Polygon that "we've identified that many of our issues were related to how [SimCity's] GlassBox [engine] managed the vast amount of simulation data through its database" "

NO SWEETHEART, the problem is your business model, not technology.

LOL. Wow. Just goes to prove technology is not our limiting factor anymore - it's common sense.
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Last edited by BoBoZoBo : 03 March 2013 at 05:00 PM.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #64
Originally Posted by imashination: Im not sure what youre getting at saying SC4 didnt simulate anything, it just pulled numbers...


SC4 had tables and compared numbers. adding a building/road/whatever made some numbers go bigger or smaller, and some low level excel maths was done to decide how many cars to show on any given road, or which art assets to swap out to.
This isn't simulation, it's grade school maths behind a clever facade.

SC (the new one) actually has unique people - it follows every single one of them. every car on the road which is contributing to your traffic problem is being driven by a person who lives in a house going to the jobs you've created for them - actual simulation.

I'm not defending it - I think this adds nothing to the overall game (as evidenced by nobody understanding that's what it's doing) and I'm also pretty sure it's directly caused nearly every issue that people have with it. It's also ended up much more basic than was promised - there are some glaring issues showing up due to pathfinding breaking.

Basically, they fucked it up something fierce in every conceivable way, but I think you should have at least done a bit of reading as to why this is different to SC4 before banging on about how that works fine.
It's like wondering why crysis wont work on your old pentium 2 when half life managed it fine. It's a ridiculous argument, and the new sim city has no shortage of very valid things to bash it for.

Last edited by cubiclegangster : 03 March 2013 at 06:01 PM.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #65
Originally Posted by cubiclegangster: SC4 had tables and compared numbers. adding a building/road/whatever made some numbers go bigger or smaller, and some low level excel maths was done to decide how many cars to show on any given road, or which art assets to swap out to.
This isn't simulation, it's grade school maths behind a clever facade.

Basically, they fucked it up something fierce in every conceivable way, but I think you should have at least done a bit of reading as to why this is different to SC4 before banging on about how that works fine.


I know how its different, its just your definition of simulation seems to be quite narrow. Simulations at their very heart are governed by a set of rules, If A happens to nth degree, decrease happiness by x% etc. I dont see looking up a table of predefined values for part of the equation as cheating, or not simulating something. If you can save yourself a lot of computing power by using known answers, or rough approximations of answers which are close enough, then thats just common sense. I even said very clearly that some parts are just a visual representation rather than every car and person being simulated:

"The only thing that wasnt actually simulated was the specific vehicles and people walking around. SC4 just showed general flows of vehicles and people to represent the commutes and congestion, whilst from what I can see in SC5, every person and vehicle is genuinely an actual simulation of an exact commute to work."

And how an I 'banging on about' anything? SC4 *does* work fine. When its not crashing.
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Old 03 March 2013   #66
about those simulations...

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Last edited by ragdoll : 09 September 2013 at 05:19 PM.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #67
Originally Posted by imashination: I know how its different,
....
SC4 *does* work fine. When its not crashing.


So why are you comparing them? SC4 working fine has nothing to do with the new one, they're completely different, don't work the same way, don't even pretend to and have nothing in common whatsoever apart from a name and few of the old devs also worked on it.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #68
Origin is a terrible service that has so many issues, and actually just two weeks ago I was notified my Origin password was changed.... without me doing so, does that mean someone managed to hack origin and then EA never said anything?

I bought Battlefield 3 on origin but will probably never buy another title if I have to do so through origin.

So it does not surprise me that EA can't get always online DRM to work in Sim City. I mean how long has origin been going? How much money have they put at it?

I suspect EA suffers from the same great flaw that autodesk probably suffers from. They run what they do too much like a production line factory. They stress out programmers, cycle through programmers, don't work hard to impress programmers, thus they never end up with brains that can truly focus on something, to their fullest ability, in the long term.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #69
Originally Posted by ragdoll: lets say all of what they claim is true.
you do need their servers to do all the simulations.
you do need their servers to be able to play the game.

doesn't that make it far worse than if it weren't true?

Lets, instead, not say that, since people have found out and tested you can play completely offline just fine for the entire time-out clock (anywhere between 6 and 15 minutes) with no issues, and have all they do synced back to their cloud save when they reconnect.

EA is simply lying through their teeth about this, knowingly, on every single detail, and it's slightly depressing people are actually buying it, in part or whole. Not saying you are, ragdoll, I mean in more general terms.
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Old 03 March 2013   #70
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Last edited by ragdoll : 09 September 2013 at 05:19 PM.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #71
All this talk about SC4 made me want to play SC4.

So I installed it from my original game disks. This game is what? 10 years old?

Will the new SimCity servers be around in 10 years?

That is all.

edit:

Well, not really. I'll elaborate on it further. Part of the magic of Sim City is being able to dig it up and play again. I have 2000, 3000, and 4. All of them work on modern systems. I've seen the original being played in various videos online, including a surprise demonstration of it on an old Mac Powerbook by a guy I'm subscribed to. It's longevity and timelessness is part of the charm. And this charm is missing in the new game (as well as a bunch of other stuff)

Sim City 2013 will not be with us as we grow and age. We won't be able to install it one day when we have that hankering for a city sim. We'll have to install something else because the new Sim City will be dead.

Last edited by trancerobot : 03 March 2013 at 12:43 AM.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #72
I can just see a tear drop go down Will Wright's face after seeing all that is happening with Simcity 5.
 
Old 03 March 2013   #73
Originally Posted by seanser: Ongoing server issues are continuing to prevent an awful lot of people from playing a game that can retail for around 45 or $65 and now it has temporarily been pulled by Amazon because there has been so much negative feedback. The question is was it really necessary to include this always online component for a game where people would be content to engage in the single player experience?


No, always online DRM is a blight on gaming, especially if it involves a single-player game. If I buy a game to play on my own I want it to do just that. Play, whenever and whereever I want and I don't want to be relying on crappy servers.

It's rediculous that since 2 years gamers more and more seem to accept the fact that their games don't run properly on release day or even weeks after it (see Ubisofts massive FAIL with Silent Hunet V and Assasins Creed 3).

Publishers should stop trying to reinvent the wheel, if you want your game digitally distributed and with a DRM use STEAM, it's the standard for digital distribution for computer games. Don't try to make/use cheap copies, there is no use to further fragment our games collections and we don't want your crappy-ware on our systems.

Use DRM that is not intrusive into my gameplay experience or I will remove it completely and be done with it. I pay for your games, I legally buy a license to use your product and you should in NO way limit that experience, no matter what the excuse is according to you.
This whole "you are always connected to friends and the community" is just a lame excuse to justify checking upon your every move and taking as much control out of the hands of the player over his legally acquired license.

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Old 03 March 2013   #74
Originally Posted by cubiclegangster: So why are you comparing them? SC4 working fine has nothing to do with the new one, they're completely different, don't work the same way, don't even pretend to and have nothing in common whatsoever apart from a name and few of the old devs also worked on it.


Oh so we're not allowed to compare new releases in a franchise with the previous version because you say so? Sorry master, won't happen again sir.
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Old 03 March 2013   #75
Originally Posted by trancerobot:
Sim City 2013 will not be with us as we grow and age. We won't be able to install it one day when we have that hankering for a city sim. We'll have to install something else because the new Sim City will be dead.


I think this is EA's intention. By calling it SimCity 2013, we have a clue to what the future holds with this franchise reboot. It will be EA who kill SC2013 via the servers when SC2014 is rolled out.

It puts me in mind of printer companies that kill the ink cartridge after a 'use by' period.
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