If The Foundry made a node-based image/photo editor, would you buy it?

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View Poll Results: Would you be interested in a node-based image editor by The Foundry?
Hells yes. Photoshop hurts my brain and kills my creativity 30 24.00%
Mmmm, sounds promising but I want to see it in action first 59 47.20%
You would have to offer up something special for me to change my current workflow 16 12.80%
Not really, I know Photoshop inside and out and I have no problems with it. 20 16.00%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by yohann: I agree with you. Foundry prices remember me Silicon Graphics age. I'm not sure if it's good... The good thing is today we've a lot of tools more or less similar... and with the fall of the job price this is a way to keeping working.

Aeh.... you sure you were around during the SGI age? The Foundry products may be more expensive than adobe ones but they are aimed at a much more specialised (->smaller) market and they are not even close to what software cost in the IRIX days...
And yes, non-destructive node-based workflow is simply better.
Also... linear float ...

  03 March 2013
There is absolutely no way you'd be able to do print images for stills at the TJ/dbox level with anything node based in a reasonable time frame. It'd take forever. I love node based workflows, but only for animation.
Preparing masks and adjustments is far quicker in photoshop too - i've started doing all my comps in photoshop first so I can experiment with a bit more freedom before building them in fusion.
  03 March 2013
Funny, I've done just the opposite sometimes when I was frustrated with pshop or wanted to do something specific. The ability to break one element out into many paths and have changes to it apply downstream can be massive.

I think the biggest advantage a compositing app (even a similarly layer based one like AE) has over pshop is the ability to keep everything "live" and continuously adjustable. Even with the history and masks etc, pshop is all still mostly based on the philosophy of one-way destructive edits.

Nodes or "living changes" can get completely bogged down with something like a paint tool, but for most other things I would love to be able to just go back and change a value instead of undo/re-apply, especially far after the fact.

If there's some better method than adjustment layers to keep other changes live in pshop I would love to see it. I think some form of linking or instancing would be very useful, along with a more AE-like individualization of layers and layer effects.
  03 March 2013
A small node editor in Photoshop would be most useful in my opinion for managing clipping masks, adjustments, layers .etc

Anything that is better at arranging working elements has to be a step up from layers

To give PS some credit though they got in there early and innovated when it counted a lot of its good features like the brush engine aren't really open for copying, they are adobe IP.

Clones are unlikely to get very far in recreating the "feel" of painting in the application because of this. Even when they import the .abr brush files it only ever interprets a very limited amount of parameters for each, that ultimately feel and behave completely differently than they do in PS.
  03 March 2013
I would buy anything the Foundry happens to make. They are just awesome.
Free rays for the masses
  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by hypercube:
If there's some better method than adjustment layers to keep other changes live in pshop I would love to see it. I think some form of linking or instancing would be very useful, along with a more AE-like individualization of layers and layer effects.

Recent photoshop versions have smart layers (essentially live links) and smart filters (live filters)

As for this topic, personally I like the workflow of Photoshop, but it could definitely improve with a mix of node and layer based workflow.

ie some nodes have layer functionality like the nuke rotopaint node.
  03 March 2013
Yeah, I use Mari and PS, and I think Mari is great at what it does, but it has a fair way to go before it can totally replace photoshop. If The Foundry can roll a fully 2D painting solution into Mari (perhaps as a separate interface?) I would happily drop PS. Especially if they can find a way to combine that workflow with Nuke projections in the same way as the Nuke / Mari bridge works. The Foundry do have a knack of being able to do just that. If they could then just roll in Modo and modo renderer, and they will have taken over the world..!

But yeah, Photoshop just isn't meant for a film vfx pipeline. Hurry up foundry, a replacement for photoshop will be the easiest sell ever!!!

Nick Marshall
Head of Environments / Generalists
Double Negative :: Vancouver
  03 March 2013
Originally Posted by cubiclegangster: There is absolutely no way you'd be able to do print images for stills at the TJ/dbox level with anything node based in a reasonable time frame.

I have no idea what this means Could you explain it? I am assuming you are talking about very, very big print jobs (outdoor advertising etc).
  03 March 2013
Ive rendered 48k images from fusion few years ago so...and I don't remember photoshop having proxy mode...
My vimeo clips
  03 March 2013
the quality of work that dbox & taylor james do. Lots of painting and meticulous detail.

Fusion can work on 5k files, but you cant hand place 500 miniscule flares one by one in a short space of time. I cant imagine cutting people out from photos, placing them in & re-lighting them/adding shadows is quick either, and it'd end up a complete mess in the node view.

I love node based editing, dont get me wrong, but there are some jobs that it just cant do in any reasonable length of time. Same way you can do things in fusion/whatever that take forever to do in photoshop.
  03 March 2013
I would definitely love to see this. Aside from the time savings from having it operate based on nodes it would mean every effect/edit would be non-destructive. I'm not sure how this might work with painting/paint blending, but maybe that could have layer functionality node for some strokes based edits and the user gets the best of both worlds.
  03 March 2013
I'm surprised so many people are seeing this as one or the other - that the choice is limited to nodes or layers and that's it.

The fundamental operations of image compositing are all pretty much completely the same. On a mathematical level any application that can composite images together works exactly the same. The most commonly used compositing operation can be expressed simply as...

Composite = FGalpha * FGcolour + (1 - FGalpha) * BGcolour

All your presented with is a different way of manipulating those components (FG, BG, alpha) in the UI. It's entirely possible to have a node-based system operating in the background and just present the user with a layers UI.

But I don't think Nuke is suited to raster painting - yet I do see lot's of potential for Mari to be developed further in this area. I'd love to see a 'canvas' tab added to Mari, where instead of storing the paintbuffer in memory (like it currently does), it would store the paintbuffer directly to disk.

While Mari doesn't have all the fancy tools Photoshop does and I'd like to see some more features (dynamics) added to it's brush system - I very rarely have to go back into Photoshop these days to do any textures work, about the only thing I use Photoshop for is creating text elements.

I'm really interested to see what's in store in the upcoming Mari 2.0 announcement.

And with a little imagination it's not hard to see Photoshop with instanced layers - would make it infinitely more useful.
  03 March 2013
Interesting point - a layer/node hybrid system.

ORMR looked quite interesting and addresses one of the major selling points of the node-based workflow - being able to go back in any point in time and changing a previous attribute/effect.
  03 March 2013
They already have one called "Nuke".
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