25 fps but not smooth like Hollywood

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Old 02 February 2013   #31
Originally Posted by derOesi: i didnt expect a line like

"....render it with 100fps, drop every 2nd image, convert it to 50fps interlaced, before deinterlacing and timewarping it to 24fps?"

could be have taken seriosly , my bad (as i already posted).
i'd like to leave it to that and hope the OP got his answer(s).

I've seen people do even crazier things in production. The process goes something like this: years ago, someone working on a project encountered a problem during production. It might have been a bug or some otherwise unexpected issue. They find a convoluted work-around that works alright. Somehow (I'm not sure how), the new work-around becomes the new way of doing things from the get-go on future projects and eventually evolves into the default method even after the person who invented it has left the studio. Now you're left with a situation where people do things in a really strange fashion, teach it to new employees who grudgingly accept it.

This is how you get places where people always render at 100 fps and then timewarp it to 24, or always render upside-down, or always converts all subdivision surface meshes into triangle meshes before UV-mapping and texturing, or model everything miles and miles away from origin. The last two I've actually experienced.

Sometimes people do crazy stuff.
 
Old 02 February 2013   #32
I sometimes render at 50fps since it is easier to get 2D motion blur work well with it while 3D motion blur takes much longer that the double file render...
I don't need to convert to 25fps but the OP might try it.
I also find the 50 fps much better visually for sport/action scenes than 25 fps.
 
Old 02 February 2013   #33
Have a look HERE for a brief overview of 3D motion blur in MR.

Also, are you rendering with GI in MR?
 
Old 02 February 2013   #34
Haha CaptainObvious, that reminds me of a story of a woman who always made chicken pie by making it all in a big tin and just before bunging it in the oven, she'd cut it in half and put the second half in a separate tin and then bung both tins in the oven at once. She had been doing this for decades. Someone asked her why she did this and she replied that that's the way her mum always did it. They then asked her mum why she did it. "Because I couldn't fit the whole pie in the oven at once".


One thing that's key to good motion blur is that what ever algorithm you're using respects a high dynamic range. This will mean that bright highlights will smear as blocks instead of a soft blur. See the example at the top of the page to see what I am talking about. http://www.pauldebevec.com/Research/HDR/ I've found different rendering programs to be a bit hit and miss in this regard, even when using 3D motion blur.
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Old 02 February 2013   #35
Actually, I was in doubt whether to take the posting by Stephan serious, the Nuke workflow with the 100 fps seemed a bit odd, but what do you know? There are so many factors in making animation and ways to do it, there could very well be some secrets I'd never heard about before - I learn new stuff all the time.

The good thing is it got me to look closer at the various Nuke retiming functions, Oflow fx. can do amazing stuff in seconds that takes ages in MR, and from my latest experiments with 3D motion blur (found the button!!!) comes so close to MR 3D blur that it's hardly worth the extra rendering time. + ekstra benefits from doing these things in post.

Still, I'm not closer to any clou about why my animations (in my eyes) seem to flicker/shudder/jitter at 25fps in this eye-disturbing way examplified in an earlier post, the best motion blur or not. Some clash with the frequency of my screen perhaps? A hidden setting in the quicktime codec not set? Don't know, but it seems like it's just the way it is.

For shorter fastmoving animations I will definitely use 50 fps (with Oflow), as I see another poster does.
 
Old 02 February 2013   #36
Originally Posted by musashidan: Have a look HERE for a brief overview of 3D motion blur in MR.

Also, are you rendering with GI in MR?


Yes, though not in the examples.
 
Old 02 February 2013   #37
Originally Posted by derOesi: i didnt expect a line like

"....render it with 100fps, drop every 2nd image, convert it to 50fps interlaced, before deinterlacing and timewarping it to 24fps?"

could be have taken seriosly , my bad (as i already posted).
i'd like to leave it to that and hope the OP got his answer(s).


lolz....You guys are meanies.

Seriously though, the OP has a point, if he's comparing a 24fps movie from a projector to a 25fps animation on a 60hz monitor right?

On a side note, I use smooth motion to interpolate some movies on my PC to fit better in to the refresh rate of my monitor. Touchy subject I know, but I quite like smooth motion, fake or otherwise.
 
Old 02 February 2013   #38
Originally Posted by DrZenith: lolz....You guys are meanies.

Seriously though, the OP has a point, if he's comparing a 24fps movie from a projector to a 25fps animation on a 60hz monitor right?

On a side note, I use smooth motion to interpolate some movies on my PC to fit better in to the refresh rate of my monitor. Touchy subject I know, but I quite like smooth motion, fake or otherwise.


Interesting. Yes, 25 fps just doesn't seem smooth when viewed on a computer monitor (my laptop screen or the bigger 24").
What do you mean by smooth motion interpolation - 25fps interpolated to 50fps fx.?
 
Old 02 February 2013   #39
I just mean, on a very basic level, 24 and 25 frames per second doesn't fit perfectly in to the 60hz refresh rate of a standard monitor. So there can be some slight flicker issues there, but this shouldn't be anything that makes a difference to the overall quality - If you put a Pixar movie on your computer monitor it's still going to look awesome.

With regards to smooth motion, it's a technique that modern TVs (and things like the Smooth Video Project) use to interpolate between frames to give an illusion of a higher frame rate. But this is a hack, and has nothing to do with anything that Pixar are doing to make their renders look great.

The guys above are correct, there's nothing wrong with your 25fps animation. It's the same stuff we're all doing. It's just all motion blur and good animation.

I'm with you though, I also MUCH prefer a higher frame rate, but 24 and 25fps are the norm for now.
 
Old 02 February 2013   #40
Okay uhm ... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 24 fps the standart output for cinema?
So all examples you mentioned here (like Pixar or Dreamworks) have no "magic framerate". You saw them in 24 fps on the big screen. Maybe that's your problem, you are used to the 24 fps feel of films and you notice the difference at 25 fps.

And as derOesi said: There is no use for 50 fps if your output medium plays 24/25/30 fps.
So stop thinking about the framerate. Pixar or Dreamworks made their animations for 24 fps too, so it's not the framerate that made it look fluid.
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Old 02 February 2013   #41
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