At what point do we hold the schools accountable?

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  02 February 2013
At what point do we hold the schools accountable?

Something I've wondered about for a really long time is at what point should schools be challenged for continuing to churn out new 3d artists? And how? Should they be denied subsidized student loans and financial aid?

I just mean, at this point I see so many advertisements (I'm looking at the one for Think Tank Training Centre banner ad right now) that I start to suspect that at least one out of every ten 3d animators are faculty at a school, giving promises to aspiring 3d animators of exciting employment that they, by being teachers, are almost de facto proof that they can't fulfill. At what point do we, even just as taxpayers, have to demand the cycle be broken? I mean, how many people do you know who have said, "oh well, I'll try to get a master's so that I can always teach."?

And the worst thing is just the immense amount of buttering up and ridiculous promises. I saw a banner ad somewhere once for a school teaching audio recording where it said "FOLLOW YOUR DREAMS" and it showed a photo of a young man sitting in front of a giant audio console synchronized to an enormous screen. The rig in the photo probably costs more than 100,000 dollars and the number of people under the age of 35 who work on something like that, well I could probably count them on my fingers.

The only way I can spin it, is that maybe historically and currently, not every aspirant gets to be a successful artist and that it's not up to schools or even subsidizers of student loans to stop allowing the chance to fail.

So what do you guys think about art and specifically 3d animation schools?
 
  02 February 2013
Instead of "holding someone else accountable", people need to hold themselves accountable. Going to school is your own free will. Taking loans and the paths you choose is also your own free will. If a person misjudges their own ability to survive in a particular marketplace, that is on them.

Schools, consultants, books, website, and whatever else generates money off providing information is just a business. No one is forced to participate.

EVERYTHING is designed to get money from the individual. Even pay for play youth sports with promise of athletic scholarships and the more you pay the more likely your kid can be a pro athlete. Business schools, trade schools, investing, house flipping, etc, etc.

Basically, everyone is a bunch of fish and which bait you choose to bite and how you take it will determine whether or not you can get away with the spoils or get reeled in for someone else's dinner. At some point, some people stop being the fish and become the fisher, doing the same to others. It's just a cycle of life and you choose what part of the food chain you want to participate. More often than not, we are the hunted, becoming the hunters only to be hunted again.

Last edited by XLNT-3d : 02 February 2013 at 03:48 PM.
 
  02 February 2013
Some people will never become an animator regardless of which school they choose. Should we still hold the school 'accountable'?
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  02 February 2013
maybe we should hold parents accountable for not producing offspring that can contribute to society and become a burdon to society. We probably need an international intervention to stop stupid people from pro-creating and producing more stupid people.

I definitely see a trend in more stupid people graduating college with self-entitled attitudes and how everything is everyone else's problem and many can't pull up their own bootstraps and kick ass and take names. They're looking for a handout, free ride or some magic salary and rights to work. Some even want some bull crap fairness policy or whatever, but haven't even paid their dues or really put their time in the production trenches and really earned their stripes.

So, who can I hold accountable for all the candy asses graduating college right now? Is it the schools or the parents?

Last edited by XLNT-3d : 02 February 2013 at 04:10 PM.
 
  02 February 2013
It's a bit of everything, but I think one big problem is people who get into it without really caring, the ones who start their college degree without any prior experience or even research into the industry. You can't actually learn everything you need just by going to college, and I think a lot of people get into it not realizing that.
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  02 February 2013
"It's just a cycle of life"

I respectfully disagree, with your post and the premise of Laissez Faire in general and I'll try to justify that under game theory.

The Laissez Faire 'best of all possible worlds' theory fails because there is imperfect information and typically consumers have information that's further from perfect then service providers. Now even if you try to make an argument that it's not unethical for a sucker to give their money presuming, falsely, that they will get a return (by the way, by not thinking that this is a problem, you are on a slippery slope because under that argument you could justify fraud) you can still justify some kind of feedback because in most systems an increase of information does in fact lead to the most and best possible outcomes.

Abstract thoughts about game theory aside, regardless of your opinion of this fact, it is still a fact that taxpayers are on the hook (in the usa; student loans, fafsa, pell grants, to name a few), and so it is of concern to them, so what is the proper response from the perspective of taxpayers?
 
  02 February 2013
I don't know about the rest of you but when we're hiring we rarely check what school the applicant went to...
Well ok, not so much for the medical animation specialist positions, you sort of need to be coming from a handful of programs, but a generalist, we just need to see a good portfolio.

Maybe I'm not a good example since to me the art school was just a place with a render farm and software where I could put a portfolio together.
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  02 February 2013
"We probably need an international intervention to stop stupid people from pro-creating"

I don't want to get off topic but this is a quintessential example of a slippery slope. And I'm only going to mention the word eugenics. Just saying.
 
  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by CGmonkey: Some people will never become an animator regardless of which school they choose. Should we still hold the school 'accountable'?


I agree, some people won't, but let's just think of the ratio of

3d animation teachers:3d animation students (but never employed long term)

What is the most acceptable ratio? What if every 3d animation teacher was giving rise to 200 students who would never find employment?

Once again regardless of what you think of government, that does represent a bad use of government funds.
 
  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by DanHibiki: Maybe I'm not a good example since to me the art school was just a place with a render farm and software where I could put a portfolio together.


Your a perfect example. School was just a tool, a resource for you to use to move forward.

Bottom line: people have to use "DUE DILIGENCE" and be their own advocates. This is only my not so humble opinion, and people are respectfully or disrespectfully agree or disagree. I also used school only as a tool and networking resource. Back then, we had real industry proven professionals teaching us, not graduating students that just barely got through the program themselves. However, you still had to grab the bull by the horns and take what was yours. If I was given a bad grade, I challenged teachers based on their professional credentials and forced them to be accountable for their decisions. I graduate 4.0. I see so many people just gliding through systems, then blaming the system for not providing. In the real world, you better be straight to the point, have a thick skin and not afraid to blaze your trail. Otherwise you're just another sucker.
 
  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by darthviper107: You can't actually learn everything you need just by going to college, and I think a lot of people get into it not realizing that.


I really feel you on that one. I don't know how it is in other lands but in the United States a full time student is considered 12 units (35 or 40 hour commitment a week) but to speak a little idealistically, being an artist is a LIFE and so if you're training to be in a quintessentially labor intensive field like animation then you should be going above and beyond what a school theoretically expects of you.
 
  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by XLNT-3d: School was just a tool, a resource for you to use to move forward.


You both bring up good points, there is something to be said about the validity of the concept of "art" school in general. Personally, I realized a long time ago that an institution was not going to teach me how to develop my own individual artistic capability which is why I went for a 3d animation program that ended up with me getting a Bachelor's of Science because mostly what I wanted was technical knowledge and challenge.
 
  02 February 2013
Originally Posted by badsearcher: "We probably need an international intervention to stop stupid people from pro-creating"

I don't want to get off topic but this is a quintessential example of a slippery slope. And I'm only going to mention the word eugenics. Just saying.


I'm just kidding around. I've got 4 myself and I do work hard to be sure they will stand strong on their own, handle adversity, accept consequences and be go-getters. It's a tough place and not many get an easy ride.

I see the main issue now and when I was in school, was people unwilling to get things for themselves and being very passive in their pursuit of anything. While it might be isolated, the most successful students I saw were very self-driven (and more self taught) and/or ex-military. The ex-military students were very disciplined and focused. Again, school was not seen as a guaranteed investment or a "pay for rights to be successful" environment. It was seen as a vehicle. How that vehicle is driven is up to the individual. How much you pay for that vehicle and which vehicle you choose is also up to the individual.

Last edited by XLNT-3d : 02 February 2013 at 04:30 PM.
 
  02 February 2013
Making pie-in-the-sky employment promises is always pretty shady, but it should be up to individuals to decide what career they wish to pursue. Yeah, the job market is oversaturated with talent, but as far as I can tell it's like that in all creative professions.
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  02 February 2013
In my experience (not every ex-military student broadcasts that they are ex-military) the most disciplined students with the most impressive work were the older adults (*cough* and me *cough*). It's because they knew what they wanted out of school, which is the reason why I always feel it's ridiculous for people fresh out of high school to go straight to a four year when they haven't figured out a path for themselves and pay high tuition for GE's.

Me, I went to community college and tried out various things, architecture, welding, music (I double majored in Music), and finally clicked with 3d animation and then and only then did I go to university. Yeah yeah, the reimplementation cost an extra year, but it was worth it, especially if the alternative would've been guilting myself into slogging through six years of architecture school only to find that I didn't have the passion necessary to make it as an architect.
 
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