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Old 02-11-2013, 09:53 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by leigh
CBT is the very opposite of being blunt, in that it involves, as I mentioned previously, a gradual exposure to the fear trigger, as part of the therapy. No psychiatrist approaches a patient and bluntly tells them they're simply overreacting, because that's not how CBT works.


QFA
Any of the leading experts on OCD will confirm this.
According to the UK OCD charity there is a particular problem in the UK media with misrepresentation of the condition (again, due to so called celebrity cases).
 
Old 02-11-2013, 09:55 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by leigh
I didn't mean to imply that you personally go to the gym, I meant that your response about paying attention to your body was typical of the male response.

No offense Leigh, but that's the typical response of someone who's never done high intensity training
The mind and your neurological balance are hard to impossible to fully map, the rest of your body is cheap to change and maintain in perfect order. Might as well start from somewhere and something you can address instead of sitting in front of a monitor pondering on the inscrutable for years.

There's plenty medical literature, accredited literature not written by knuckleheaded gym rats, going for it.

There's a complex hormonal and chemical balance to your body that the average CG artist does his/her absolute best to compromise, and the same goes for nutrition, and the best long term dietary choices (and I mean eating habits and feed, not going on a slimming diet) are only truly effective for those who have some athletic regime.

As someone who has swung in and out of alternatively being overweight and having a sixpack, and alternatively in and out of sponsored sportsmanship and doing absolutely nothing, and having had many people around me who did the same (not to mention having read a shitload on the subject AND having experimented on myself), "Go to the gym" is a much better suggestion for someone with minor to mild humour, mood or anxiety/letargy imbalances than you seem to think. This holds true for both sexes.

Of course there's a lot of idiots in a gym, especially if you go to a "serious" one, and not a cardio and pilates temple to the latest fitness fashion, but you might be surprised at how much clued and educated research there is in modern fitness if you find the right trainer, and what change it brings to your life for the cost of three one hour sessions a week. For one, coupled with a decent diet, you at least won't have a testosterone imbalance and insuline spikes followed by letargy throughout the day.

But hey, what do I know, I've been religiously monitoring my deadlifts for six months now, I must be a knuckle head too
Mens sana in corpore sano.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:58 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Geta-Ve
How is it unfair in a job setting? You either do your work, or you don't get paid. It's that simple.


I wasn't talking about jobs.

Quote:
You assume that I have never been abused. Do you also assume that I have no chemical imbalanced conditions?


Dude, what are you talking about? Where did I say you've never been abused, or that you have no chemical imbalances? Seriously? I mentioned one example to demonstrate that people don't necessarily have to have chemical imbalances in order to be suffering from serious issues that need attention.

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Don't misunderstand my statement to mean that it is EASY, but you gotta do what you gotta do. When you have a family to take care of, bills to pay, debt to settle, what are you going to say? "Oh, poor me, I was abused as a child so I can't do my work, give me free monies to sit on my ass and not get better". VERY FEW people actually get better without provocation. You pay someone to stay at home, and that is exactly what they will do.


Yeah you're kinda going off an entire tangent here that I never even mentioned.

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I am honestly surprised at your stance Leigh, you talk about the mediocrity in society, what about the hand holding, and the coddling that is so prevalent in our society these days?


You're the second person to make this irrelevant comparison. Mental illness isn't some airy fairy sitting-around-feeling-sorry-for-yourself while everyone mollycoddles you.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:05 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by ThE_JacO
No offense Leigh, but that's the typical response of someone who's never done high intensity training


Actually last year I trained four times a week with a personal trainer for several months, as I needed to increase my CV health to combat an arrhythmia problem. It was great, the rush of endorphins after a tough workout is a fantastic feeling. But studies have also shown that the usual prescribing of exercise for depression (and, I guess, other issues too) actually doesn't make a difference for those with clinical issues. In fact, just last year the British Medical Journal published the results of a study they'd done on whether exercise benefits depression patients and their conclusion was that it has no benefit:

http://www.bmj.com/content/344/bmj.e2758

But my post wasn't about whether or not going to the gym is a good idea, but rather to illustrate the differences in which men and women tend to respond to their feelings. If you read the link I posted earlier in the thread, you'll see how both men and women fail to recognise obvious depression symptoms in male subjects, and this is due primarily to gender roles in society. Which is what my post was about. I have no issue with gym members, considering I enjoy the gym myself.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:12 PM   #65
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Fair enough about the context of it, but I still think it's a stone not to leave unturned, in fact, given how cheap, it'd be the first to turn IMO.

Besides, for the ONE study showing some non-motivated, medicated people, conducted in partnership with someone peddling medication, I don't find invalidates the hundreds showing that those who by own initiative take on HI training and have reported benefits and medication drops.

HI and CV training are miles apart btw. Psychologically it's the difference between a challenge and a chore for most. The latter also does very, very little to help your body balance out its resources, has no CNS impact whatsoever, and it's also not the best complementary program to a healthy diet.
It's far from useless, but if we're talking hormonal and psychological impact, you might as well pick a game of cards and play it
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:15 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
I wasn't talking about jobs.

Funny, because I was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
Dude, what are you talking about? Where did I say you've never been abused, or that you have no chemical imbalances? Seriously? I mentioned one example to demonstrate that people don't necessarily have to have chemical imbalances in order to be suffering from serious issues that need attention.

You asked me 'would I ...' which obviates to me that you assume I wouldn't simply because I don't know what I was talking about?

To answer your original question more directly, YES I have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
You're the second person to make this irrelevant comparison. Mental illness isn't some airy fairy sitting-around-feeling-sorry-for-yourself while everyone mollycoddles you.

Chemical illness? For sure, definitely not, the individual has no direct control over how they deal with that other than to take medication in the hopes that they get better.

Otherwise? Yes, that is exactly what it is, mollycoddling. What happened to me in the past has no handle on who I am in the present, or who I will be in the future. I can let the issues build, or I can get on with my life.

To quote Shawshank, You can either get busy living, or get busy dying.


I am sorry, but this is my belief, and this is how I live my life. Whether or not it's worked out so far is my problem. lol
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:23 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO
HI and CV training are miles apart btw. Psychologically it's the difference between a challenge and a chore for most. The latter also does very, very little to help your body balance out its resources, has no CNS impact whatsoever, and it's also not the best complementary program to a healthy diet.
It's far from useless, but if we're talking hormonal and psychological impact, you might as well pick a game of cards and play it


Forgive me, when you said high intensity I thought you were talking about stuff like interval training? Because that's what I was doing with my PT as part of my CV boosting. Out of interest, what kind of training are you talking about then?
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:30 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Geta-Ve
Otherwise? Yes, that is exactly what it is, mollycoddling. What happened to me in the past has no handle on who I am in the present, or who I will be in the future. I can let the issues build, or I can get on with my life.


I just personally disagree with this. Hey, if it's worked out for you then props to you. But I don't think it's mollycoddling to send people who've experienced trauma like abuse, rape, or something like really horrific experiences in combat (which would all be considered under the spectrum of PTSD) for therapy to help them. If you think that's mollycoddling then that's your opinion that you've clearly set your mind to, so we will have to agree to disagree there. It's just that I had a family member who killed himself after a traumatic event, and I think if he'd had the right treatment, he'd still be with us today. His problem wasn't chemical but it was certainly unbearable enough for him to take his life.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:35 PM   #69
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Sprints and various cardio offsets are a type of HI (IE: recu bike with 30s on high resistence followed by 90s low resistence, uphill sprints to jog and so on), but unless you do uphill circuits with a sled (which is awesome but expensive and not possible in every city) they hardly challenge your central nervous system, and will tend to be more of a cardio + fat burn than anything else.

While they will help the dietary/body composition side of things (much better than sustained fatburn style cardio), they will do relatively little for your hormonal balance, and in the case of males (not so for females who rarely feel the need to be buffed up) you get the added benefit of stereotype more muscular build if you want to look at the psychological side.

CNS challenging, all round hi intensity can be done a number of ways, but it usually includes a fair amount of weight. Whether that's machines, free weights, body weights and so on is up to how you like to train.
I do a lot of free weights and pure strength training personally, and try to stay away from machines and bodybuilding style mass, but that works as well. As long as your body feels like it needs to dig itself out of some deep shit frequently enough, it will perform miracles with the resources available from glands and feed.

I also get to eat like a F'in pig with little consequence, and have control on things like hunger and so on, which if you have alimentary problems is an added benefit. I don't, I just like food, and it makes me happy that my diet actually requires me to stuff my face four times a week
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:38 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geta-Ve


Chemical illness? For sure, definitely not, the individual has no direct control over how they deal with that other than to take medication in the hopes that they get better.


From OCD therapist Dr. Jeffrey Schwartz.


"Recent scientific research on OCD has found that by learning to resist obsessions and compulsions through behavior therapy, you can actually change the biochemistry that is causing the OCD symptoms. But keep in mind that the process of changing the underlying biological problem, and by doing so changing the urge itself, may take weeks or even months. It requires patience and persistent effort. Trying to make these thoughts and urges go away in seconds or minutes will cause only frustration, demoralization, and stress. It will, in fact, tend to make the urges worse..
"


I have heard of approaches for OCD where they emphasize not thinking about it at all because that in itself can be a form of obsession itself so there is some disagreements in the field of treatment . And it can be true that if you get on with living and find things you enjoy doing, and feel good about yourself, can lessen the condition's intensity. But no one has been able to find a one size fits all approach.
Even Schwartz's 4 Step method isnt considered perfect.
 
Old 02-11-2013, 10:43 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by imashination
Obviously I meant to visit the Anne Frank museum so you can see how easy you have things by comparison.


great one
 
Old 02-11-2013, 10:54 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
Forgive me, when you said high intensity I thought you were talking about stuff like interval training? Because that's what I was doing with my PT as part of my CV boosting. Out of interest, what kind of training are you talking about then?


no, I think the is talking about this high intensity training ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Mentzer) also called Heavy duty.

and no, you cant do it 4 times a week, but most likely once every 4-5 days.

quite OT but anyway, HI is great.

but for my friend that asks help about his anxiety problems.... with all the comments I read on here, my advice is: you want to help yourself? please go to someone who knows what he is talking about
 
Old 02-11-2013, 11:06 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by almagesto

but for my friend that asks help about his anxiety problems.... with all the comments I read on here, my advice is: you want to help yourself? please go to someone who knows what he is talking about


But watch out if they tell you they can only help you after 5-12 sessions at $150 an hour.
 
Old 02-11-2013, 11:15 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
I just personally disagree with this. Hey, if it's worked out for you then props to you. But I don't think it's mollycoddling to send people who've experienced trauma like abuse, rape, or something like really horrific experiences in combat (which would all be considered under the spectrum of PTSD) for therapy to help them. If you think that's mollycoddling then that's your opinion that you've clearly set your mind to, so we will have to agree to disagree there. It's just that I had a family member who killed himself after a traumatic event, and I think if he'd had the right treatment, he'd still be with us today. His problem wasn't chemical but it was certainly unbearable enough for him to take his life.


Fair enough.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:18 PM   #75
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Nah, Leigh was closer with what she mentioned (which is HI, just cardio HI).
Heavy duty and spare training is just a type of HI, not the definition of it.

HI is simply predicated on doing something that is more than your body can cope with in normal conditions, so you force it to use resources to improve, that's why challenging your CNS and breaking fibers are staples (which Cardio HI only does for your heart and some small neutralisers).

How many times you train depends on your splits and their separation.

Unless you're on steroids (or something else altering your anabolic cycle, growth hormones or whatever), or have a ridiculous amount of separation and localisation, neither of which I'd recommend (I train overlapped as I do my work mostly for sportsmanship, balance and health, which means I can't separate too much with several full body compound exercises in the routines) three day splits are more or less the most you want to train.

Two day splits with one day of cardio for beginner strength training is a good starting point for unfit people.

Occasionally I do a four day split four or six week cycle (break the routine), but don't find that sustainable long term, even if I enjoy the chance to frequent more often, and the removal of cardio when I do.

Anyway, this is probably verging OT, but I would still recommend anybody to try it, ESPECIALLY if you feel your mood and hormonal balance could use some adjustment.
A mix of exercise, removal of highly processed food, exerting control on your eating habits, and some knowledge about nutrition principles go a long way in balancing out your life.
You can take care of a lot more once you're in that state where your back is never sore, anything you need to do during a day requires no effort, and you're done and over with tension headaches and digestion problems. I can't see how anybody could be truly relaxed when half their waking hours are spent coping with some form of pain or physical upsettling, it's like torture.
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