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Old 02-11-2013, 05:01 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kees
You have a very outdated view on gender on how psychology works.

Could you please explain to me what exactly is outdated in my thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kees
What may have worked for you, will not necessarily work for the next person.
It is such an oversimplification of the many psychological challenges a person can have.

Correct, that's why I presumed it works better for females, if they claim you can't help yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kees
It is also usually pretty brave of a person to admit they have a problem and need some help sorting through it. You make it sound like that is a weakness, while it actually is a strength.

To be willing to visit a psychologist and admit you may require help and are willing to let go of your own fears and opinions and try somebody else's method.
That is courage.

I didn't say you should neglect professionals. Please see the second half of what I stated also. I agree acknowledging you have problems is a very important step, rather than ignoring it. Exercising and stuff is a no substitute for this, but rather a complimentary addition. I think people shouldn't neglect learning to cope also on their own. Saying you can't is the same as neglecting professionals. I just see females are not analytical with their problems, but rather let it work another way, through different techniques which are far away from a logical analysis. Not that I say a logical analysis of your problems is always a solution, but I see they have a very different approach than me.
 
Old 02-11-2013, 05:03 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by PaintedFox
As for more information... well, I have actually been seeing a counsellor for the past year and a half, which was about the first right step made. At the current point, my issues have more to do with not being able to "loosen up", both by way of hitting a creative block and discarding ideas during the brainstorming stage, as well as going over and over and over redoing regions of an artwork (especially lineart) until it's just a messy blur because it just never feels like it's working out.


If it's any consolation, what you're experiencing here is what most people go through, so don't feel like you're alone in this one. All artists have creative blocks and discard ideas, so don't worry about that! When you hit a creative block, often the best thing to do is actually to go do something else for a while; go watch some of your favourite films, or play some of your favourite games, listen to your favourite music, do something that will get you in touch with the things that inspire you. Chances are, you'll overcome the block, even if it's just with a small spark of an idea that ends up as something else entirely.

I've experienced the same thing as you with going over and over lineart, but you know what? It never really works. If you get to the stage that you're doing that, start over. I find that often when I start things entirely from scratch, I tend to do a better job. Fresh perspectives and all that.

It seems to me that you're experiencing many of the common frustrations that we all experience from time to time. Don't let them get to you - even the most experienced artists will have similar frustrations occasionally. It's part of being a creative person. Just don't let it get to you.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:30 PM   #48
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It's very easy to spot the folk here who have absolutely no idea what an anxiety attack entails. It's not a case of 'worrying unnecessarily' or 'overreacting.'


Quote:
I finally convinced myself that there was absolutely NOTHING wrong with me physically and that it existed entirely in my mind.


Quote:
but it was one of his blunt statements which still sticks in my mind that, in hindsight, was as effective as any of the other ammunition in the mind-war


Hold on, just so I have this entirely straight. So far my comments have been: "Its not something that can be medicated away for most people, its a result of their character traits" - i.e. some people are just naturally nervous and anxious, its not a physical fault that can be corrected. And "Sometimes you just need to be honest and firm with someone" - i.e. try to get the person to see that what theyre worrying about, doesnt merit all the panic and effort in the grand scheme of things.

But apparently I dont know what im talking about... despite the fact you just backed up everything I said.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:34 PM   #49
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My wife is a social Worker so I might be biased, But I think Talk Therapy can do wonders.



If you can find a person who is right for you (and can afford it) a good therapist can help a person greatly.



Also exercise is another great way to blow steam.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:41 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by leigh
Swedish Lapland is the most relaxed place I've ever been. I daresay a stint there would cure anyone of their anxiety, and I actually mean that seriously - I think the society we live in today is so fast-paced and pressured that it's very difficult to deal with anxiety without removing yourself from it, even if only temporarily. Being somewhere totally tranquil puts things in perspective.


I hadn't thought about it, but after reading this, I have to say that living out in the country, far from pretty much everything, makes a huge difference. I can walk to totally green fields and forests and relax anywhere away from traffic noise, hustle and bustle and concerns of work. Also living somewhere extremely cheap makes it a whole lot easier to relax.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:42 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by leigh
Honestly, you don't actually seem to know very much about anxiety disorders at all. Most of them are not simply brought on by a person's own personality traits; in fact most anxiety disorders are chemical in nature (whether due to brain chemical imbalances, or in many cases substance abuse) and tend to require a combination of medication and cognitive behavioural therapy to treat, not, contrary to your claim, being tough with them. The therapy includes a gradual exposure to the anxiety trigger, with gradual being key.

I don't think you can compare nervous students to someone with, for example, post traumatic stress disorder, which is a type of anxiety disorder.

I do agree with you, however, that the OP could provide some more information which could help people to focus their suggestions.


Strawman argument much? If you try stuffing any more words into my mouth that I didnt say, I think I'll gag. Im simply talking to and replying to the guy that started the thread based on what he has told us, who lets just assume for a moment isn't a recovering drug addict or has recently witnessed a horrifying event that will scar him for life. So far he's told us he panics and gets overly anxious when working on a project, obsessing too much over minor details which dont matter; how about we help him on that basis instead of all the mud slinging im reading.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:30 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imashination
Strawman argument much? If you try stuffing any more words into my mouth that I didnt say, I think I'll gag. Im simply talking to and replying to the guy that started the thread based on what he has told us, who lets just assume for a moment isn't a recovering drug addict or has recently witnessed a horrifying event that will scar him for life. So far he's told us he panics and gets overly anxious when working on a project, obsessing too much over minor details which dont matter; how about we help him on that basis instead of all the mud slinging im reading.


Wow, really? I didn't put any words in your mouth, but I'm guessing this is your way of dealing with somebody telling you that you're wrong. Because when you said:

Quote:
Most anxiety disorders are brought on solely by the person themselves as a result of their basic character traits


and

Quote:
Rarely are they caused by any physical problem which can be remedied


You were wrong. Unless you're an expert on psychiatric disorders and wish to dispute current understanding and treatment of them? But hey, go ahead and chuck your toys and tell people they're creating strawmen and flinging mud if that makes you feel better, even though you and I know I did no such thing.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:49 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mister3d
Could you please explain to me what exactly is outdated in my thoughts?


Sure.

This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister3d
Correct, that's why I presumed it works better for females, if they claim you can't help yourself.


and this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister3d
I just see females are not analytical with their problems, but rather let it work another way, through different techniques which are far away from a logical analysis.



Instead of looking at it from an individual point of view, you have put women in one category and men in another. Instead of saying "What works for one PERSON, may work differently for another" you had to divide it into gender.

And that is very outdated for subjects like anxiety.

It might be true for things like spacial awareness and that sort of thing that most men and women have differences based on evolution.

However, the way men and women re-act to things like anxiety does not at all fit into your analysis of men and women. It is separated based not on gender but in certain types of personalities that people have and the experiences they have had before.

Women can be just as good at resolving certain emotional challenges by themselves as you claim men are and visa verse: men can have just as hard a time resolving certain psychological problems without help of a professional.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:53 PM   #54
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There's a difference between phobias and clinical anxiety disorders and the latter splinters into different kinds.

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder(not the celebrity kind where they fuss about germs but the real medical condition where people fear they are pedophiles or kleptomaniacs or that their children will die if they dont count the apples in the fruit bowl correctly) is classified as an anxiety disorder but its significantly different from having a fear of spiders or public speaking.

And it also splinters into different kinds of OCD.

Current clinical research suggests cognitive behavioral therapy can help alleviate the condition and reprogram the brain (and alter the chemical composition of the sufferer). Exposure therapy (being exposed to the source of the obsession-fear) can help, but not for all types of OCD.
For some drugs appear to be the only relief but it can also make the condition worse depending on the person and the drugs.

But getting CBT from a qualified source depends on the services in your area and the knowledge of the staff.

I dont know about the simpler forms of anxiety disorders but it is a fact that for someone with OCD just telling them not to worry does NOT work. It usually makes the anxiety condition worse.
 
Old 02-11-2013, 09:11 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
Wow, really? I didn't put any words in your mouth, but I'm guessing this is your way of dealing with somebody telling you that you're wrong. Because when you said:

You were wrong. Unless you're an expert on psychiatric disorders and wish to dispute current understanding and treatment of them? But hey, go ahead and chuck your toys and tell people they're creating strawmen and flinging mud if that makes you feel better, even though you and I know I did no such thing.


Just before you completely and utterly finish putting your foot in it, I should probably inform you I've read up pretty extensively on the subject over the years for a number of personal reasons, and do, despite what you might hope, know what im talking about. I make no claim at all to be an expert on any subject, but I do have a better understanding than most because I need to.

And just before you go ahead and mangle my words further to suit your POV, I'll head you off with some generally accepted facts; and do note, I am not including disorders caused by drug abuse or serious post traumatic stress, they dont affect my life, theyre clearly not in the gist of this discussion and Im not knowledgable enough on them.

Yes, there are certainly plenty of drugs you can take to calm yourself down and make life easier, but just because there is a medication, does not mean there is any intrinsic chemical imbalance in the body which would cause the symptoms. A person can have a panic attack without there being something to medicinally cure.

Most common anxiety disorders are caused by a persons own overactive worries, concerns and paranoia about a given situation; this isnt belittling the problem, its facing it head-on for what it is, hence most can be solved by nothing more than words. Be they from a councillor, psychiatrist or friend. Phobias, OCD, GAD, social anxiety are all often triggered by a specific event in someones life which then balloons and commonly grows to take over their everyday life. Much of the time, the person wont even realise what it was that triggered it.

Sure you can start chomping down any of the well known drugs to suppress the effects, but very few of them are a long term cure and almost every last one has significant side effects, in many cases worse than the initial problem. For most people, the best solution is to just talk about it, and heres the bit you hate hearing, but im past caring at this point; in many cases a person just needs to be told firmly and reassuringly by someone they trust, that the thing which is causing them to obsess, isn't a real, credible problem.

OCD about germs? The commonly accepted solution is to hit them head on by putting them into a situation which they fear and dread, and show them that the thing they are afraid of most, isnt a real credible threat. Yes you have to judge the level. Go too fast and theyll panic and it wont work.

Phobia of spiders? get them down to the nearest zoo and ask if they can hold a tarantula.

Social anxiety? Depending on the exact nature, drag them out to the nearest bar, crowded space or awkward situation and solve it head on.

Noticing a theme here?... maybe?... perhaps? These are not my solutions, they are generally regarded as THE solutions by the people who know what theyre doing. And hey guess what, the same goes for general anxiety disorder, which by the scant details, is likely what the OP has.

Just to quote your first reply again though, because its been pissing me off:
Quote:
Did you even read the first post properly? I doubt someone would use the term "anxiety disorder" if they were just "overreacting" or "worried" about things, and being blunt isn't exactly a tactic I'd imagine many psychologists or psychiatrists recommending for dealing with someone who is vulnerable.


The absolute definition of most anxiety disorders is that they are overreacting and worrying about things which are not a threat. The most effective solution for the most common types is to be blunt.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:17 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by kelgy
There's a difference between phobias and clinical anxiety disorders and the latter splinters into different kinds.

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder(not the celebrity kind where they fuss about germs but the real medical condition where ...


Phobias are defined as an anxiety disorder.

Belittling hygiene OCD as not a real medical condition that only celebrities get... Go live with someone who washes their hands until they bleed and starts ripping off their fingernails because dirt can get underneath them, then tell me again how its not a real medical condition.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:32 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imashination
Go live with someone who washes their hands until they bleed and starts ripping off their fingernails because dirt can get underneath them, then tell me again how its not a real medical condition.


I never said it wasnt a real medical condition. I said the celebrity form of OCD where they get upset about germs or arranging things is not real OCD. It trivializes it in the media and people assume that OCD is about being afraid of germs only. It isnt.


You can visit http://www.ocdforums.org and get educated about the various kinds of OCD and how it is not so simple as shoving one's face into germs as some recent tv shows suggested.
How do you help someone who is afraid they are going to have sex with their child or that they committed a murder?
If only it were as simple as a germ phobia.
 
Old 02-11-2013, 09:33 PM   #58
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I'm not going to get drawn into an extended tit-for-tat here, suffice to respond to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by imashination
The absolute definition of most anxiety disorders is that they are overreacting and worrying about things which are not a threat. The most effective solution for the most common types is to be blunt.


While anxiety, by definition, is a behaviour involving an excessive worrying, there's a difference between day-to-day anxieties, which we all experience at some point or another, and the point where it's so debilitating that it's diagnosed as a disorder. Because then what you fob off as simply overreacting and worrying becomes something terrifying to the point of almost total incapacitation for the patient; the point being that no matter how you define the disorder, that's not an adequate description for what the patient is experiencing, and it's what the patient is experiencing that's important. And if you've done all the reading you claim to have done, then I can't imagine why you're continuing to state that the most effective solution for the "most common types" is being blunt - and this isn't me disagreeing with you, but the psychiatric profession, because CBT is the standard therapy for most anxiety disorders. CBT is the very opposite of being blunt, in that it involves, as I mentioned previously, a gradual exposure to the fear trigger, as part of the therapy. No psychiatrist approaches a patient and bluntly tells them they're simply overreacting, because that's not how CBT works.

There's something very telling in your phrase there that you think I'm "hoping" you're wrong. Project much? I'm responding to what I perceive as a lack of empathy towards people (not just the OP) who suffer from mental illnesses here, not trying to prove people wrong. Having had ample experience with a broad spectrum of mental illness in my immediate and extended family, including a suicide and a number of other violent episodes, I've unfortunately had an education through ongoing close-quarters tragedy in both the diagnosis and treatment of a number of psychiatric conditions, including anxiety disorders. The lack of understanding and empathy displayed by some here is pretty astounding and what I'm trying to do is spread a little understanding. You don't just tell people to snap out of it.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:41 PM   #59
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Quote:
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This is a little unfair, and a rather sad indication of the continuing misunderstanding and consequent stigmatism of psychological problems so prevalent in society today. Problems don't have to be clinical in order to be debilitating; an abuse victim, for example, could suffer from a multitude of issues not chemical in nature - would it be okay to tell them to just suck it up? Similarly, anxiety issues tend to stem from past trauma. Have some more empathy.


How is it unfair in a job setting? You either do your work, or you don't get paid. It's that simple.

You assume that I have never been abused. Do you also assume that I have no chemical imbalanced conditions?

I have as much empathy as the victim allows me to. If they want to get better they will. Period.

Don't misunderstand my statement to mean that it is EASY, but you gotta do what you gotta do. When you have a family to take care of, bills to pay, debt to settle, what are you going to say? "Oh, poor me, I was abused as a child so I can't do my work, give me free monies to sit on my ass and not get better". VERY FEW people actually get better without provocation. You pay someone to stay at home, and that is exactly what they will do.

I know this from experience.

I am honestly surprised at your stance Leigh, you talk about the mediocrity in society, what about the hand holding, and the coddling that is so prevalent in our society these days?

Ultimately, regardless of what has or happened to me or anyone else, the fact remains.

Are you dead? No? Then stop wasting your god damn life.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:52 PM   #60
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Don't get me wrong, I am all for people going to hell in their own way, but, would you get out of my way while you do it? I got shit to do.
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