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Old 01-29-2013, 06:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geta-Ve
I don't see an issue with women being the prize? Whether it was underlying or blatantly outright. That is life. Men are always trying to get the woman of their dreams, and as are women trying to find Mr. Right. We sexualize each other, it's called having fantasies for a reason.


Surely 'life' is treating people as more than prizes or accessories? It is even ironic given their big lesson in the animation is to treat one-another as friends rather than a means to an end.

Again, I really like the animation but I had some difficulty accepting the authorial view of male-female interactions when it came to this.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AangtheAvatar
My question is how come something like R' ha gets more attention in general to a 2d animation like this?

I'm watching all of the films you guys are listing and so far they are all great. I see no need to denigrate R'ha. I prefer The Reward but it is still well done. Like Padawan said, all in good time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeroenDStout
It is a wonderful animation, truly, but they did go on this journey of growth in order to pick up women and their success in this is underlined at the end... and the only woman not falling for it, being adversarial, had to be disposed of. Sexualized themes are OK, really, sex is part of 'the adventure'. Yet it does have that male (heterosexual) normative perspective you get from more small animations, treating women as 'the prize' for a non-hero to aspire to.

That is certainly one overlying theme and it is what it is, but I chose to focus more on the friendship part of the story. That scene in the middle when the wizard is crying, that was the film to me. I didn't see the ending as getting the girls, it was passing the torch(map) to 2 new friends. Listening to my son afterwards, I believe he thought the same way.

Edit: I think it's time to watch it again. May have to add it to my morning pep-rally.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:35 PM   #18
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Very nice. But this Wilhelm scream thing has to stop. aaaAaaahg.
 
Old 01-29-2013, 07:35 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by dpendleton
This was a great animation that felt more like 30 minutes than 9 minutes meaning that it was that good. I personally would like to see more adventures for these two.


sorry this logic doesn't compute for me.....
but it's true, it feels a lot longer than other 10 minute shorts....
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:04 PM   #20
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That was really creative. Truly, I think if we completely stopped objectifying women as something to be coveted, the most upset would be the women. Regardless, the story for me was about the adventure and friendship bonding they made and not really the increased female attention at the end. Shrug
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Last edited by MrPositive : 01-30-2013 at 01:55 AM.
 
Old 01-29-2013, 08:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Very nice. But this Wilhelm scream thing has to stop. aaaAaaahg.

I know. It was a cute touch when George Lucas did it because that was what, 10 films over 30 years? Now it's EVERYWHERRRRRRE!
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:02 PM   #22
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I actually didn't care for the entirety of it... not sure why. The art was good, and some of the scores were too.. i think what bothered me is the voice acting, and sometimes the mood change from the score seemed a bit off and drastic.

not my style i guess.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:38 PM   #23
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:50 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeroenDStout
It is a wonderful animation, truly, but they did go on this journey of growth in order to pick up women and their success in this is underlined at the end... and the only woman not falling for it, being adversarial, had to be disposed of. Sexualized themes are OK, really, sex is part of 'the adventure'. Yet it does have that male (heterosexual) normative perspective you get from more small animations, treating women as 'the prize' for a non-hero to aspire to.

The animation style and the breadth of locations and events is wonderful, though, and nary a second is wasted. Very eloquent.


Yes, yes, and yes... And I love the sensual parts of this as well.

But what's clever is the "Reward Tiering" where the show earns its title. When the heroes see themselves in the mirror and they realize that's what they wanted all along.

And that's where it's effective and clever. They want to tell you a story in 10 minutes and they need one where one "lower goal" is supplanted later by a "higher goal" this is very very difficult even at 100 minutes. To do it. They use Sex then later Self-Fulfillment. It is brilliant. It is quick. It is entertaining.

It is genius.

The parts with the adventure and the realization that "Hey! We've become heroes!", that reminds me of the best part of playing Dungeons & Dragons before it got turned into video games.
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Last edited by CGIPadawan : 01-29-2013 at 11:53 PM.
 
Old 01-29-2013, 11:50 PM   #25
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I hate to sound negative, but what is the big deal? It was not exactly an original story and the animation didn't deserve the " Now this is Animation! " thread title. At most it just had some nice touches imo.

I may of missed something though so I'm open to enlightenment.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grrinc
I hate to sound negative, but what is the big deal? It was not exactly an original story and the animation didn't deserve the " Now this is Animation! " thread title. At most it just had some nice touches imo.

I may of missed something though so I'm open to enlightenment.


Well in my eyes, it was just "expertly pulled off". Hitchcock used to say all the time that "It's not WHAT is in your movie but HOW you do what's in your movie. That's the one that gets them." Again... to me... This isn't original at all...But the "tactical decisions" they took to the story and how they expertly wrap up some themes and introduce new ones... with the inclusion of action..... the use of the musical score.

It's kind of like when you watch a fencing match... and someone does something and suddenly everyone around is like... "Oh... that was goood....".... And you realize it's all about technique....even if the final result isn't exactly spectacular.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:04 AM   #27
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Thanks for the insight. Perhaps I was over looking. I did enjoy it still but I guess the comments I read prior to seeing it built me up somewhat. I'll watch again with a nice cup of tea and some fresh eyes.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:11 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeroenDStout
Surely 'life' is treating people as more than prizes or accessories? It is even ironic given their big lesson in the animation is to treat one-another as friends rather than a means to an end.

Again, I really like the animation but I had some difficulty accepting the authorial view of male-female interactions when it came to this.


It was 10 minutes... so they took short cuts.

The trick really was "running the world like it simply is" and "Walking the style like we own it."
So they simplify it in a way where their world's women are all just swimsuit models.

If they made the girls anymore than posturing sex objects the film would automatically be longer (and more difficult). This is fair game to them... and simple gratification for its male audience.

They also come up with newspaper strip sized gags, like how the heroes gain their weapons... because another pair of "heroes" were probably doing the nasty (again... quick sell to the ribald male audience) at a nearby bush and completely left everything unattended.

Thinking with your pants... you accept the logic and move on. (Just like the male audience would with the "initial reward motivation" of young nubile women).

Another clever thing: Your magic wand fires all by itself even if you didn't study magic at all.

To quickly drive home the gravity of being distracted in life, one of the heroes loses two of his fingers because the other guy got drunk. Because when you're strapped for time, gore and blood is the fastest way to let people know how terrible something is.

How do they show the reconciliation of the two heroes? The other guy has sobered up and bandaged the injured hand! It's shallow.. it's not the greatest thing... But it's visual... and the characters treat it earnestly (they man-cry to each other). And that's it.. you move on.

It's these little things.... These guys were VERY smart.
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Last edited by CGIPadawan : 01-30-2013 at 12:18 AM.
 
Old 01-30-2013, 12:25 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grrinc
I hate to sound negative, but what is the big deal? It was not exactly an original story and the animation didn't deserve the " Now this is Animation! " thread title. At most it just had some nice touches imo.


Pretty much my reaction. The animation had some nice flourishes but the story, character design and music for me were all pretty average. I've seen plenty of other student shorts I enjoyed a lot more. It would be a boring world if we all liked the same thing of course.

Cheers,
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:30 AM   #30
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I do of course recognize the shortcuts. But the shortcuts do demand of an audience they can recognize and enjoy the simplification. I actually find the idea of a 'simple gratification for its male audience' part of the problem; why is this animation aimed at men, directly? Not men like me, clearly. There is no reason to assume a male audience at any rate.

In hindsight they 'outgrow' their petty initial ideas - so why not leave the women off the horses at the end, is my line of thought. Currently it quips "achieved: women", rather than following the (up to that point) excellent growth. I can see it is a shortcut some men may identify with but I find it too much in line with male/female-stereotypes that I do not like. This is not a wordly view of women or attraction; whereas the rest of the animation shows more knowledge of the medium, styles, storytelling...

I think all the other shortcuts you mention are excellent. I do not object against all shortcuts (storytelling itself would be impossible), just ones that are based on heavy gender stereotyping.
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