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Old 01 January 2013   #16
also, high sallery does NOT per deffinition mean you are a better artist. it can also simply mean you are exelent at managing the cashiers mind with argumentation

Money is a mental state, not a technical deffinition when selling ART.

Last edited by gkmotu : 01 January 2013 at 07:04 PM.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #17
Someone who has good intentions, is sweet, and knocks out stunning art sounds like a model employee to me.

I don't know what type of studio likes to hire aggressive, self promoting artist, but I sure don't want to work there.
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Old 01 January 2013   #18
no one wants to work in that climate! But, world is full of em regardless.

Id encurage to be sharp when you need to be, this round around - money wise. inhouse or dealing with a client.
Beeing sharp is a positive step. Not negative.

Last edited by gkmotu : 01 January 2013 at 07:05 PM.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #19
Originally Posted by AJ1: Someone who has good intentions, is sweet, and knocks out stunning art sounds like a model employee to me.

I don't know what type of studio likes to hire aggressive, self promoting artist, but I sure don't want to work there.


I totally agree.

This kind of SELL YOURSELF, BE BUSINESS-SMART type motivational speaker stuff makes my eyes roll. People who have these ruthless, aggressive attitudes tend to end up hated by their colleagues, and kicked out as soon as their contracts end.
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Old 01 January 2013   #20
This talk is about dough and how to get it if you struggle with low prices and competition.
It is not about bringing in irrelevant angles that wont work obviously, such as beeing agressive.
This is an important issue for many people obviously, so lets talk about how to tackle it.

I dont want to get into a bitch fight because people start to mix stuff up. keep it sober please.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #21
The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer, that's the economy of CG.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #22
I've seen some unfortunate examples of how these days, more and more its about who you know, how you sell yourself and less about what you know, how hard you worked for it. I'd say someone with a basic portfolio and a good communication/marketing strategy has more chances of getting jobs than some amazing artist who lacks self-promoting skills
 
Old 01 January 2013   #23
exactly,
and if we filter out the content of your 2 cases we end with a guy that does well in communication and one who doesnt, and that makes the difference on the coin.
So the smart guy takes the price and the less smart guy can print his images and use them as starters for a fire in the woods to keep him warm, as long as it lasts.

I hope for a better synergy between artist and his sucess and learn what is important.

Saturation and more hands, better and easier tools means art is common mans domain, it will forever increase and never stop, only speed up. And its nothing to be affraid of, unless you are sitting in a random chair in a pipeline all full of yourself in some corner of the world and think your seat is secure, cus it aint. You got to move in all directions both artistic and business relations to keep up from the rising floor.

Last edited by gkmotu : 01 January 2013 at 08:31 PM.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #24
Actually,

letting my work speak for myself worked for me so far. I did not need any active self promoting other than publishing my work on a few popular sites. But i never needed to search for work, work always found me, and the better my output got, the more interesting and better paid work found me.

And from my point of view, those people who want to talk and advertise themselves into the job with speeches rather than showcase of their skills do not make a good impression.

I always found that best recipe is to fight on quality line. As an individual, if you fight on quantity or price line, then you are against yourself.

Down here, people often complain about how Archviz branch is ruined by students with stolen software, who pump out output at 1/5 of the price, and clients are getting accustomed to that price range.

But then if you look closely, output of those self called professionals is no different, or sometimes even worse, than output of those newbie students. CG always was and still is a very well paid industry (not as well as a bunch of years ago, but still reasonably well), but it was never an easy money. It is well paid because it requires a lot of hard work, effort and self improvement.

I have found a quite few clients already who's main demand was quality no matter what price. Or a studios using similar parameters when searching for employees... Like the one i ended up working for

Last edited by Rawalanche : 01 January 2013 at 09:14 PM.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #25
Originally Posted by Rawalanche: I always found that best recipe is to fight on quality line. As an individual, if you fight on quantity or price line, then you are against yourself.

this little snippet is good, I would like to comment on it if you dont mind.
I belive it is possible to grasp both quality jobs, quantity jobs and price competative jobs all in same time.
I belive its about adjusting pipelines accordingly to the target, target beeing what the client wants.
Personally I am not ashamed to deliver any type of product as long as the vision gets realised and the partnership unfolds into whatever the clients products are, be that like you mention gfx, audio or even non artistic products.

The most important part is intergrity towards the product, this way you can stay true to yourself and your relation.

I have personally had serious issues defining what I wanted to do as it all came so natural, but then recently decided I want to grasp everything with all abilities at hand.

Some time back:
My foundament was out of balance and my values was displaced. You didnt get to feel this in practical ways when working on some stuff I sent, but I have had pain my friend, so much pain. Pain over having everything at hand, beeing able to do whatever I wanted - but have no goals with it.
I took out 6 months and bought many RC planes and smoked a lot of grass to clear the head and reset my values as they had drifted to shady acres with demons lurking in the shadows, It can be dangerous to be good at stuff as it can be dangerous if you are bad at things and if those 2 paths cross and you are an adventerous fella, all sorts of nasty habbits can spring from it.
Got through though
Hello world!

Last edited by gkmotu : 01 January 2013 at 10:25 PM.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #26
Originally Posted by AJ1: Someone who has good intentions, is sweet, and knocks out stunning art sounds like a model employee to me.

I don't know what type of studio likes to hire aggressive, self promoting artist, but I sure don't want to work there.


Agreed. Aggressive employees can wreak havoc with the harmony required for everyone to work as a team.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #27
Originally Posted by gkmotu: .........You can sit with the best intentions and be the sweetest guy knocking out stunning art, get pants pulled down at the burger joint where you work and get sallery reduction to a point you need to live on the street. yeah, that is life, if you suck at managing your talent you are destined to live on the street and its your own fault.

10 Manage
20 Communicate
30 goto 10
40 run

You make it sound that everyone are losers or going to lose the battle.
Its a false assumption.
Life is = a stack of winners and a stack of losers. Its not too complex.

I want to be a winner, I belive I am. my clients thinks I am a winner, the more I belive it and its backed up with success the more it enhances focus and it breeds more success.
But more important, I realy want you to get this feeling too

You will not succeed if you run down any other tactic other than luck. and my name is not Luke




Real life isn't as clear-cut as that. A lot of what you are posting reads like something from a self-improvement book. You know the kind of book that rams things down peoples throats whether they like it or not.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #28
You make it sound like its something bad.
Quite some negative feed, negativity prevents people doing all kinds of stuff. As I mentioned I tried it myself.
There is only positive things to extract from having a positive angle when looking at things.
If you sit and are sour and bitter, well be my guest, but it wont help you in the long run.

I used to work a place before making my own place, we had one dude.
He was so sour and bitter, yelled at everyone and his role got compromized within a very short time where as I forexample had all the doors opened up from management side, cus I always said nomatter what channelge was, I can do it - and I did it, because I belived in myself.
It would probably never have come to that if I was unsecure and needed tripple checkup on everything, you sometimes just have to jump on to the wave and surf it not knowing where it will bring you, but if you do it with a good feeling you get a nice memory and it powers up all the good stuff automaticly.

Beliving your self isnt some hollow crazy newage rant, its a powerful tool and it aint a hostile approach in any way. Nor is it selfish. You shouldnt constrain yourself with this thought as it is not correct.

Beliving your self when it comes to deal with Money is very important too. I know I am right, so realy it doesnt affect anything trying to give another impression.

I wish for artists in the cg world that has various issues be monitary or practical to start see things in a positive light. Something good comes out of it always, be that getting that one job or getting those extra coins, if that is your goal.

Last edited by gkmotu : 01 January 2013 at 12:03 PM.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #29


I think this guy won, his plan was "..when everyone one is super, no one else will be", i don't know if i like the ideia of cg becoming so easy that any one can do a feature filme with good looking vfx, with their iPads, maybe i'm wrong and to stupid to see the benefits, but i don't like it.
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Old 01 January 2013   #30
Oh, well you can be guaranted that if you dont move with the development, the water level will eventually drown you, and this is exactly what Ludvik also examples.

This is based on the fact that the industy is super imature and undeveloped. Ive mentioned this elsewhere too.
We havent even seen the first 50 years of CG beeing mainstream, 50 years is nothing, its nada and we arnt even there.
Paradigms springs from rocks from all corners constantly, this is a clear as crystal indication we have a huge change of development in the sight, talking relativly to tool and workflow developments.

There is no point in trying to fight the development of everything, it will be more simple and mainstream. Accessible for the masses.

You can argue that several tasks in our industry are too complex to tackle in the near future for common man.

You can argue that artistic talent and approach is needed for unique shows, and this is completly true.

But as with everything that is imature, access to end product for the common man with less and less effort will forever increase in ease.

And we can thank ourself and the inteligent product developers from the past to create this foundament and the current developers to seek this common goal, as well as the not yet developed tools and workflows to come to our part of the world in the future.

Last edited by gkmotu : 01 January 2013 at 05:13 PM.
 
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