Potential client upset at my estimate.

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Old 01 January 2013   #46
Originally Posted by DashCourageous: Graphic designers and illustrator get the same treatment, especially with the glut of online publishing now. Horrible designs, because anyone thinks they can slap something down and call it design!


There was a graphic designers's campaign a couple of years ago with the slogan of something like "No, your nephew can't do this" dealing exactly with this. Its something that's happening in every creative/artistic area and its due to the availability of free of knowledge and ease of access to means to create/produce. There is a "controversial" book by Andrew Keen called ""The Cult of the Amateur: How Today's Internet Is Killing Our Culture" " that deals with this topic.

Some say its true and that more and more the average person "devalues" the importance of skill, preparation, the number of years it takes to make an competent artist/designer and how i.e. youtube, besides giving free access to everyone to publish also creates a huge amount of noise where its hard to find quality. Others say that its a sort of elitist rant by people who are just afraid to lose their importance and that with free knowledge and cheap hardware more talented people have the chance to "bloom" and be known.

Its an extremely complex sociological topic and i think we see evidence from both sides of the fence, specially in the CG field. The OP's client probably has seen some tutorials himself and thought "hum this sounds easy, i could do it myself, but alas, haven't got the time" and probably got a back-to-reality shock when he realized the price and work it takes.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #47
I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for.

Last edited by azamux : 01 January 2013 at 02:33 PM.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #48
Originally Posted by azamux: I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for.

Agreed. Thanks for the leeds, it looks like a few of them are going to to pan out.
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Old 01 January 2013   #49
I'm just curious, what happened with your bid ? How did things get resolved? Or did communication just end?
 
Old 01 January 2013   #50
Interestingly enough, I just saw this on Linked In:
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CALLING ALL 2D ANIMATORS – HUGE OPPORTUNITY!

We have DIRECT access to 20th century Fox the same company that distributes “Family Guy”, “Bob’s Burger”, & “The Cleveland Show”

We need a QUALITY, QUALITY, QUALITY Animation Company / producer ASAP to animate our 11 minute pilot script in 2D the same format as “Family Guy”, “Bob’s Burger”, & “The Cleveland Show”

The script is ready for you or your company to animate and 20th century Fox is waiting for the pilot!

NOTE: There is NO PAY UP FRONT. Let us repeat there is NO PAY UP FRONT!

THE BENEFIT: If we choose you or your company to produce our pilot and 20th Century Fox picks up the pilot we will offer you the FULL TIME PRODUCTION WITH PAY!

Remember there is NO PAY up front. If you’re looking for compensation or pay up front please DO NOT CONTACT US you are wasting both of our times!

If you accept our criteria please submit a link to your demo reel, your email and Skype address.

--------------------------

This seems to me EXACTLY like someone (or a company) trying to get something for nothing. Talk about no respect for the artist... And someone has already offered to do it.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #51
Originally Posted by DSW:
This seems to me EXACTLY like someone (or a company) trying to get something for nothing. Talk about no respect for the artist... And someone has already offered to do it.


Its so absurd that it's funny. 11 minutes of animation *ahem*, "QUALITY QUALITY QUALITY" animation... neither the announcer or anybody who replies the ad seem to have a clue about the amount of time, work and the can of worms they are opening. Guess who'll be blamed after the pitch fails? Its Darwinism at its finest


OP, how did your story unfold?
 
Old 01 January 2013   #52
Originally Posted by entropymachine: Its so absurd that it's funny. 11 minutes of animation *ahem*, "QUALITY QUALITY QUALITY" animation... neither the announcer or anybody who replies the ad seem to have a clue about the amount of time, work and the can of worms they are opening. Guess who'll be blamed after the pitch fails? Its Darwinism at its finest


OP, how did your story unfold?

I responded to that thread and stated the obvious potential problems, but the guy who said he'd do it said:
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"That is a definite drawback and a potential deal-breaker, however, I am interested in this project, because if chosen, this would be a lot of fun. to work on. I'd like to see where this goes. If they don't pick me then "no harm, no foul.""

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I can understand people wanting their work shown, but this just seems like it will not only hurt him but so many others. I just can't believe the audacity of the company who is willing to let other people do everything and they end up reaping any rewards and the animator will most likely receive nothing.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #53
you guys should visit the freelance sites like odesk more...i see things that make me thing no one in the world has money anymore, because frankly...paying 5 dollars to edit a 60 minute video "very easy" and saying "if you don't like the budget do not apply" in the ad.
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Old 01 January 2013   #54
Originally Posted by rafamathard: you guys should visit the freelance sites like odesk more...i see things that make me thing no one in the world has money anymore, because frankly...paying 5 dollars to edit a 60 minute video "very easy" and saying "if you don't like the budget do not apply" in the ad.

Actually I did about a year ago. The recession had eaten significantly into our business and I was looking for a little extra. You're right, budgets were so low with nearly everyone looking for someting practically for free. Very sad and disgusting seeing so many looking to make money off of the either uninformed or desperate.

The company I talked about above came back with a response to my post:

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"We plan to compensate our animator(s) when and "IF" the series gets picked up, with the production. We're also saying we have several animated TV series and animated Feature films. We would prefer to work with animators that helped us when we didn't have funding and took a chance with us.

FOR US IT'S ALL ABOUT LOYALTY!

We have already submitted several projects to 20th Century Fox and we hope to hear good news within the next 30 days.

We have received more then 6 animators / companies ready to move forward. Hundreds if not thousands of animators / companies across this world will NEVER get this type of access.

Have a blessed day!"
 
Old 01 January 2013   #55
If he got mad at a reasonable quote, and has the balls to do so while having little experience in purchasing such things, then you did not burn the bridge... he did.

With that being said, its not uncommon to have a little bit of conflict over pricing, even with a good client. Sometimes you just need to go the extra step of educating the client a little more about what exactly they are getting and why. Tell them that you welcome them to go out and compare quotes (apples to apples, of course.)

Sure, these days there is a lot more competition and confusion of pricing since you have so many tools that let a lot of amateurs try to dabble, but the fact remains talent is talent and you get what you pay for. Just make sure your client understands this when you tell them to shop around. They may pay a cheaper upfront costs, but the lack of quality and experience will end up costing more than triple that on the backend in redos and education.

I let clients like this go and more often then not, they come back, even after full on blowout and insults. It's crazy, but when it comes down o business, they learn REAL quick who is wasting their time and who can get the job done. If not, they fail.

Either way, never feel bad about quoting a reasonable job.
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Old 01 January 2013   #56
Clients/jobs that don't pay off ain't clients/jobs, they are a waste of time and effort.

I did a lot of no/lo pay jobs, just for the fun of it, but not anymore. After 15 years in postproduction and vfx I don't want to spend my rare spare time on the same stuff I do for a living too much hours a day anyway.
 
Old 01 January 2013   #57
Originally Posted by DSW: -----------------

"We plan to compensate our animator(s) when and "IF" the series gets picked up, with the production. We're also saying we have several animated TV series and animated Feature films. We would prefer to work with animators that helped us when we didn't have funding and took a chance with us.

FOR US IT'S ALL ABOUT LOYALTY!

We have already submitted several projects to 20th Century Fox and we hope to hear good news within the next 30 days.

We have received more then 6 animators / companies ready to move forward. Hundreds if not thousands of animators / companies across this world will NEVER get this type of access.

Have a blessed day!"


Ugh, this stuff just makes me sick...

Think they truly believe they're "allowing" artists in on the ground floor of something big?

I also love that he mentions they have shows and feature films planned, as if nobody else in this world has an idea for a movie...
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Old 01 January 2013   #58
Anyone can submit shows to 20th Century Fox. I've pitched to Nickelodeon after e-mailing the department, and I have zero connections there. They're offering nothing, unless maybe they have a really good story and character design that the animator was blown away by, which is doubtful.
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Old 01 January 2013   #59
Originally Posted by Michael5188: Ugh, this stuff just makes me sick......


Me too. It reads to me like they are saying "&^%* you and anyone else who wouldn't work for us for free."

If someone said that to my face, I would have to plant my fist in it. That's just the way I feel about desperate people being taken advantage of, with vague promises and reassurances.
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Old 01 January 2013   #60
Originally Posted by azamux: .......Send me your CV and reel and I might be able to hook you up.


It's nice to see people offering to help one another.
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