Critics slam "Hobbit" 48 FPS feel...

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Old 12 December 2012   #61
Just came back from seeing Hobbit and it is amazing. Enjoyed every second of it. Could not restrain from tears on each LOTR installment, Hobbit was no exception.
I was doubtful about 48 frame rate as I dont like that feel on my tv, but now, after finally seeing it, Hobbit is amazing cinematic achievement 48 frames or not.
I guess the perception of the HFR is individual thing and it's about whether you are able to make peace with it and enjoy the ride.
This is becoming the most epic hexology ever and I'l probably see "An Unexpected Journey" at least 2X more times on the big screen.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #62
Quote:
You'd keep low-motion shots at 24FPS, and ramp up to 32 or 48 FPS only when there is a lot of movement in the shot.


Thats too lineal, if you are sampling a signal in space which is the filmed scene and sampling parameter is the frame rate, you want to get higher sampling in some places and slower in some other, like raytracing and general signal sampling theory do many times. Sigma has always several dimensions. It is on-frame differential frame/rate.
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Last edited by Samo : 12 December 2012 at 10:24 AM.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samo
Thats too lineal, if you are sampling a signal which is the filmed scene and sampling means frame rate, you want to get higher sampling in some places and slower in some other, like raytracing and general signal sampling theory. Sigma has always several dimensions. It is on-frame differential frame/rate.


As far as I understand, technology is currently being created to have variable framerate in even the same frame.

A character standing or moving slowly in a shot would screen at 24 FPS.

Another character doing crazy karate-moves in the same shot/frame would sample at 30 - 48 FPS.

That's a promising approach to me. At least in theory.

And we know that "in theory" is always right, right?
 
Old 12 December 2012   #64
Quote:
Originally Posted by DePaint
As far as I understand, technology is currently being created to have variable framerate in even the same frame.

A character standing or moving slowly in a shot would screen at 24 FPS.

Another character doing crazy karate-moves in the same shot/frame would sample at 30 - 48 FPS.

That's a promising approach to me. At least in theory.

And we know that "in theory" is always right, right?


Yes you want to sample that signal in time too, the problem at least have the 4 dimensions: 2D scene, frame number and time. Later it becomes a problem of interpolation. I wonder how they interpolate different frame rates. Reconstructing a frame rate number is easy, but the problem is scene reconstruction. I suppose they interpolate pixel color in time. Also what kind of sensor does that, I wonder if current digital sensors can.
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Last edited by Samo : 12 December 2012 at 10:16 AM.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #65
I will see it here in West Palm on Imax in HFR and 3D- I think I'll like it- I prefer clear over grainy any day- especially for beautiful scenery- this will just motivate better props and FX.
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Old 12 December 2012   #66
After I watched the HFR presentation at this past Siggraph I am excited to see the Hobbit presented this way. The little movie James Cameron made kind of destroyed all of the arguments against it and what the history of 24 fps really is.

When films started to get made 24fps was picked as a compromise between quality and cost. A lower frame rate means less film to buy and film cameras would last longer. Today it is a legacy that is accepted as part of the overall language of film, but it doesn't have to be sacred anymore with digital cinema the cost of filming and presenting isn't a factor. For VFX and CG doubling the frame rate could mean an exponential leap in computing and dev time. Simulations have to increase their temporal resolution, detail needs to be improved (although at the panel they admitted that they already go very high detail on what they do for CG and VFX in films anyway) and you are rendering many more frames (this is where the variable HFR cinema techniques could prove useful).

To me HFR cinema, 3D, and gimmicks like that won't ever make good movie out of a bad idea, but I am still pretty happy to have filmmakers push the limits of what is accepted and the concept of how things need to be done.
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Old 12 December 2012   #67
I'll have to wait and see but as of now, from the trailers there's nothing glaringly offensive.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by DePaint
As far as I understand, technology is currently being created to have variable framerate in even the same frame.
That "technology" is just rotoscoping, if you're referring to those Douglas Trumbull tests. So nothing new.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #69
With HFR i'm wondering if evoluted techniques of image post pro would improve final appearence and give the movie a more cinematic look as we are used to know ? or even better, an improved cinematic experience not necessairly as sharp as we get, thus avoiding the video look many notice so much.

if motion blur is what adds fluidity and cinematic look, maybe it could be possible to adjust that even in post pro in some way. Same could go for grain ?

Or, other techniques. for example shot double both in 24 fps and 48 or higher then find ways to combine both where needed ?

I dont know if this makes some sense, but i think that since we had 24 fps for ages , all cinema technique was developed onto that basis. Now would be time to develop another one based onto higher frame rates.

Another thing to point out is that hfr was added to make 3D look better and more fluid, this is the main reason, because 3d brought new problems and didn't look so good as 24 frame rate movies aside from the stereopic effect. So, more details serve the stereopic effect better.

But, some good level of artistic feel should always be mantained. After all, is not a matter of seeing things better or with deepness that make us believe in movies. it is our brain.
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Last edited by Nemoid : 12 December 2012 at 10:40 AM.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #70
It's OK, the world is not ending

I just saw the Hobbit, and I actually forgot about the frame-rate about 15 seconds into the film. Wasn't reminded, nor thought about it until now.

I think some critics are making a mountain of a molehill. In other words much talking about an inconsequential matter.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #71
Weird that I just saw The Hobbit and I didn't even notice the frame rate change. Shrug. What I did notice are two major things I'll go into further later when everyone has had a chance to see the film.
[ SPOILER - Click to reveal ]
Spoiler:
Martin Freeman was a brilliant casting choice. Gollum once again kind of saves the movie. And damn if I don't want to visit New Zealand after this and see those landscapes with my own eyes. However, watching a 1000 goblins/orcs get skewered over an hour's length reminded me of the final Matrix film where the guy was in the robot shooting down the flying robotic bugs for half the movie. Why in the hell did Jackson have to make this an epic by stuffing in so much action and making this three films (two would have been perfect and they could have cut out all these monotonous fighting sequences that get redundant)? I'm on the fence still on whether I'm going up or down on this one. And just saying that makes me down. :\
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Last edited by MrPositive : 12 December 2012 at 11:14 AM.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #72
I saw it, and I didn't notice the HFR either,

however I did think, during the film, that a lot of the props looked too light in its motion,
and was offputting, and some of the cg, with respect, didn't sell, including matte backgrounds.

I realized later, after doing a little research that I had been watching the 2k 24fps version.

I'm going to see it again, this time in 4k 48fps, (3d) version.
I think this will give me a good benchmark, to see if I like it or not.


(as a footnote, I sincerely hope 3d, and its glasses and gimmick, die.)
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Old 12 December 2012   #73
an interesting read on the subject. theres really no cut n dry answer here to the discussion.

http://www.100fps.com/how_many_fram..._humans_see.htm
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Old 12 December 2012   #74
Quote:
Originally Posted by DePaint
As far as I understand, technology is currently being created to have variable framerate in even the same frame.


There's no need for new technology. You can have variable fps anytime in a 48 fps movie. That's because you can actually "embed" 24 fps footage in a 48 fps film. You can actually embed any fps from 1 fps to 48 fps.
----
And about the 48 fps and how it makes everything clear and better and some don't understand how can that be a bad thing. Well it's the same as having scenes with no depth of field effect. Also and again it looks like cheap tv effect, while filming with lenses which give that specifics bokeh blur look pleasant and like film. That lens blur also restricts the visible details and allows you to see only small parts of the screen in clear. Everything else is blurry. And so far, no one argued that it's bad.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #75
^ I guess you could say in a way that traditional 2D animation and stop motion has been using variable frame rates for as long as it has existed, as they often will animate 'on 2s' (the same image exposed twice) for slower actions and then switch to 1's for faster actions.

Cheers,
Brian
 
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