How many job tests one needs ?

Become a member of the CGSociety

Connect, Share, and Learn with our Large Growing CG Art Community. It's Free!

THREAD CLOSED
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  11 November 2012
Well, people are complaining about ridiculous test like, one week work test. Not the kind of test Tuqui mentions.

If I'm gonna work for you, you have to pay, period.
 
  11 November 2012
After being laid off a few months ago when 38 Studios went bust, I've found that a lot more companies are requiring art tests, even from senior individuals who've been in the industry for awhile. I've had companies assign art tests to me expecting me to spend two weeks on the test. So it's not just a simple, sculpt this bust to see if you can do the work. It's a little frustrating, as on one hand people who are applying for jobs obviously want the job, but on the other hand working for two weeks on something, without pay, isn't exactly ideal. Especially when you have multiple art tests to do. It's a real head scratcher.

I'm wondering if testing is just on the developer (art, programing, design) side of things? Do HR people have to take HR tests? How about producers and other managers? My guess is they don't, but I could be wrong about that.
__________________
Online Portfolio
 
  11 November 2012
Originally Posted by jrsunshine: I am curious why people are so opposed to "art tests". If you cannot do basic tasks using software you claim to know, you shouldn't get the job. Period.


Wow, really? You're missing the point here. This isn't about "basic tasks using software you claim to know", it's about spending time, often days, creating assets for a company with no guarantee of employment at the end of it.

If a company cannot make a decision based on a CV, reel, interview, and checking references from previous employers, then they're just taking the piss.
__________________
leighvanderbyl.com
 
  11 November 2012
Originally Posted by leigh: Wow, really? You're missing the point here. This isn't about "basic tasks using software you claim to know", it's about spending time, often days, creating assets for a company with no guarantee of employment at the end of it.

If a company cannot make a decision based on a CV, reel, interview, and checking references from previous employers, then they're just taking the piss.


I can understand having a problem with spending significant time on a task for the company with no guarantee of employment. I would agree on that issue and would also be resistant to that sort of thing. You feel like you are working for free. I get that.

In the software development world, there are a lot of people who are great at jargon, buzzwords, packing their resume with fluff, and choosing references for their positive feedback. They get hired and cannot perform even the most basic tasks expected of a professional software engineer. I suspect some of that happens in hiring for professional 3D artists. That is why I don't fault companies for being thorough and tough. They are doing the hiring and eventually paying the salary. They have a right to be tough. They do not have a right to take advantage of applicants.
__________________
Roy
 
  11 November 2012
Originally Posted by leigh: This isn't about "basic tasks using software you claim to know", it's about spending time, often days, creating assets for a company with no guarantee of employment at the end of it.


But isn't this the norm for anybody job seeking in this day and age in any area? Total uncertainty if you get the jobs or if some HR ppl are even polite enough to answer back at your applications?

I totally understand that for experienced people with references it can be annoying (or as i've been reading here almost borderline offensive) to be tested like that and have to prove their worth as if they were newbies on the business again and work for free, but what about people like me who don't have any work experience and just a simple college portfolio and need to overcome that huge step that it is to "get in" the industry for the first time? We have to subject ourselves to non-paid internships, runner positions and all those without any guarantees as well, all those having to burn through our savings to pay living expenses and basically going through a limbo of 6 months to a year without knowing if you're getting in or not.

A week of work may seem a terrible thing to waste for someone on a level that can afford to say no, but i assure you there are hundreds of us who would gladly trade that week of uncertain testing for the months we spend sending resumes and basically having a non-life. So i'm glad that folks have that job security to refuse offers like that but on the other hand its kind of frustrating to hear it considering how hard things apparently are for newbies. (i.e. i recently even knew about some cases of layed off senior artists applying for junior positions out of necessity and thus totally botching the entry level system for newcomers on a certain company).
 
  11 November 2012
Originally Posted by Ethervoid: But isn't this the norm for anybody job seeking in this day and age in any area?


No.

Imagine that I was applying to work as a truck driver for a shipping company and had all the certifications and/or licenses required to drive a semi. After applying for a job, a HR person at the company asked that I make 3 unpaid cross-country deliveries in one of their trucks as a 'TEST' of my ability to drive big rig and stay on schedule. It takes me a week of driving almost non-stop, but I make all the deliveries and safely return the truck to the warehouse.

Cut to a week later. I've gotten no calls and no emails from the delivery company pertaining to the job or my performance. I email and call the same HR person who seemed so friendly and responsive BEFORE the 'TEST' but they never reply. Its fairly obvious that they are just ignoring me now.

I can assure you that my attitude would NOT be, 'oh well, it wasn't like I had a job or anything else to do that week anyway'

I've got a better solution for these studios. You can get my reel OR a test. Not both.
__________________
"Have you ever just stared at it.......Marveled at its bee yooty?"

Last edited by zzacmann : 11 November 2012 at 07:52 PM.
 
  11 November 2012
Originally Posted by jrsunshine: I am curious why people are so opposed to "art tests"......


The majority don't seem to mind a reasonable length test. It's tests that take a week of work that seems to be objectionable, and the companies failure to answer questions to unsuccessful applicants seems to be rubbing salt into the wound.
__________________
I like to learn.
 
  11 November 2012
Depending on the test, you could negotiate to send small playblasts, turntables, pictures of different views, etc. and not send the actual asset/file itself. This way you do the test and they don't have the asset to use in production.
__________________
 
  11 November 2012
Originally Posted by flipnap: as a side note, i always thought it to be strange that salary is the LAST thing discussed. tests, interviews, lunch, etc. should be the LAST thing to be done. after all, if the pay rate wont be satisfatory, then nothing else matters.


Amen, brother, in the first place if I apply for a job, I wanna work in that company, if they invite me for interview, they want ME there, too, so the only real matter is: can I afford to join that company or not.
Whats the point of all the talk ? I work well with people who I dislike, and even better with those I like, and they are not searching for friends but production artists, right ? Its called "professional" and not "social".
I hope I don't sound like Clint Eastwood
__________________
Ciao,
Emmanuel
PXLRY
 
  11 November 2012
Last time I did an art test it was a weeks worth of work with 3 specific briefs for a character design, environment concept and freehand mechanical ideation sketches, this was with Ubisoft, they gave no feedback

Just how it works i'm afraid. If you don't like it, don't do it.

All things said in my opinion most art tests are usually down to gaps in a portfolio, things like small images and erratic quality level wont help your case. You go in there with a clear, consistent, high quality, well rounded portfolio they are much less likely to ask you to pitch. Fast way to loose the best applicants (who are usually in demand)

And if you are in demand challenge them with it! Guys i'm busy because my work is awesome, and i got no time! meet instead? few assets on freelance?
 
  11 November 2012
Originally Posted by zzacmann: Cut to a week later. I've gotten no calls and no emails from the delivery company pertaining to the job or my performance. I email and call the same HR person who seemed so friendly and responsive BEFORE the 'TEST' but they never reply. Its fairly obvious that they are just ignoring me now.


I've been through that a lot regarding interviews, and wasn't by far suggesting an oliver-twist-attitude of "please sir can i have some more?" I'm the first guy telling my friends to never go to interviews with a begger attitude, never work for free and politely suggest ppl to shove it when that "oh but its good for your portfolio" talk comes up.

In sum my point is that since a-priori you can't know for sure if the HR or recruiting manager is going to be one of those who never reply back, its kind of a gambit, that some ppl like me who dont have nothing going on don't mind to bet on, since it is, at least a chance
 
  11 November 2012
At my current job they wanted me to create a scene and do a quick flythru, a good amount of work! However I was paid a fair amount for my time. I really appreciated it and it showed the company was professional and respected my time. So far I'm pretty happy here.

IMO if they are a serious company they should be willing to compensate you for your time. Otherwise if they do that to you before you even get a job, think of what they'd be willing to ask of you afterwards.
 
  11 November 2012
Originally Posted by elindell: However I was paid a fair amount for my time. I really appreciated it and it showed the company was professional and respected my time. So far I'm pretty happy here.
.


That sounds awesome . Just out of curiosity, was that payment known before u were tested or only after?
 
  11 November 2012
Originally Posted by Ethervoid: That sounds awesome . Just out of curiosity, was that payment known before u were tested or only after?


Yes before hand, it was nice working on it knowing that even if I don't get the job that I wasn't completely wasting my time.

edit: To be clear, I didn't know going into the interview there would even be a test, but they gave me some files to work with and said "do what you can, we'll give you $xxx for your time though"

Last edited by elindell : 11 November 2012 at 10:49 PM.
 
  11 November 2012
Kind of shocked to hear people won't take a test, we require it of everyone for every production position. Every company I've worked for has done it that way. If someone says they won't take a test, I don't care who they are, what their reel looks like, years experience, or previous projects it's an immediate denial. The tests aren't extreme and it's not just the final model/image/animation that counts. It's your attitude about it, and most of all (which many applicants don't understand) is that it's your chance to test the studio. Think about the kind of direction they give, what sort of reference material, concept images, timeframe, clarity on expectations, etc... If you get crappy information on a test, you're going to get crappy direction when working there. I've always created tests so what I deliver to the applicant is the same level of information an employee in that position gets. I've only worked at very reputable companies so I've never seen a test used as an asset. Some companies will even do something where the test is similar to what they want, but isn't in the scope of the game. For example if we are making a desert fps, you may get asked to model a scuba guy. Same level of detail and quality, but out of the current scope of the game. In most cases companies 'shouldn't' ask for the source files, that way it's obvious it won't be used, and any test material should be allowed to be used in the artists portfolio. Tests should only be given after 1-2 interviews to make sure the company is interested in you as talent and a personality fit. If you don't get hired based on the test, the company owes you a quick critique and suggestions on things you might want to improve upon and not just walk away and fire off a form letter. Also, the 1-3 month probationary period is great, but not a test substitute. If we relocate you from the other side of the country or world it can be a large expense and we want to be sure about that hire.

Hell, I've got 14 years experience, shipped 15+ games on 3 generations of consoles and PC (with more than 21 million units combined sales), and I did a test with no whining. Had a couple clarification questions, and then did it. This was after 1 phone interview, one skype interview, and 2 in-person interviews. If you want the job, take the test.....

(to be clear also, this is from a game dev perspective, no idea about other development areas)
__________________
propaganda is to a democracy, what violence is to a dictatorship.
 
Thread Closed share thread



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.