Why is Arnold Render not publicly available?

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Old 11 November 2012   #46
Originally Posted by DePaint: Yes, Arnold is available cracked online.

But I'm not looking for that.

I'm looking for an official trial-version from Solid Angle that I can download and test legally (for 30 days or whatever...).


I am following the fxphd class on arnold and really enjoying it. And yes it gives you access to a license for educational purposes, no watermark
 
Old 11 November 2012   #47
Originally Posted by Panupat: May I ask your opinion about Arnold's materials/shaders? Someone wrote a tutorial about Arnold skin shader in his blog and it looked quite complex :O Is it as hard as it seems?


I've only had a brief play around with the sss shader, its very similar to the mental ray fast skin shader but with a few extra controls like diffuse roughness and energy conservation.

Also the standard shader is very similar to the mental ray mia x shader. However although the standard shader has a lot of good things going for it, I don't think its as polished yet. Solid angle are doing a great job of updating and developing Arnold though, so I'm sure the standard shader will get updated.

H
 
Old 11 November 2012   #48
so how much faster is Arnold than the current commercial raytracers?

We just moved to a popular raytracer and found all the same pros that everyone is going on about with arnold i,e easy of use, out of the box, fast setup and expensive looking renders straight up etc etc. With all the bells and whistles we were getting about 15min a frame hd.

Is there any benchmark tests or anything out there at the mo or has anyone got any examples of how it compares too current publicly available tech?

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Old 11 November 2012   #49
I don't have any benchmarks. But after months working with it I can honestly say that it's faster than Vray and MR for exterior shots - especially with motion blur and dof (which both looks nice).
Plus it's well implemented in Maya (maya textures, nodes etc) and soon Fluids afaik.

But the biggest reason we here moved to Arnold was because we wanted a renderer that is artist friendly and where the rendering guy still has the ability to freak out all over the place. Not to mention the IPR crashs with MR, what a bullsh...
Vray is very cool in Maya, but we decided to switch to Arnold because you have to push Vray too if you want speed and flicker free animations. Wouldn't have made much difference from MR (setting up this and that).
But what I love about the Vray for Maya version is that you can actually work in the scene while rendering - the gui is not freezing. (just like in the newest MtoA version)
And with Arnolds brute force, which is fast, you don't have to care.
It's all about time/results. And in that equation Maxwell won for product shots, Arnold for animations! If the speed is to slow, upgrade the render farm. It's cheaper to invest in cpu's than wasting time with non-artistic work (don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with that. I like to know the techniqe behind all that, but most of the artists out there don't care)
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Last edited by m0z : 11 November 2012 at 11:53 PM.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #50
Originally Posted by m0z: I don't have any benchmarks. But after months working with it I can honestly say that it's faster than Vray and MR for exterior shots - especially with motion blur and dof (which both looks nice).
Plus it's well implemented in Maya (maya textures, nodes etc) and soon Fluids afaik.

But the biggest reason we here moved to Arnold was because we wanted a renderer that is artist friendly and where the rendering guy still has the ability to freak out all over the place. Not to mention the IPR crashs with MR, what a bullsh...
Vray is very cool in Maya, but we decided to switch to Arnold because you have to push Vray too if you want speed and flicker free animations. Wouldn't have made much difference from MR (setting up this and that).
But what I love about the Vray for Maya version is that you can actually work in the scene while rendering - the gui is not freezing. (just like in the newest MtoA version)
And with Arnolds brute force, which is fast, you don't have to care.
It's all about time/results. And in that equation Maxwell won for product shots, Arnold for animations! If the speed is to slow, upgrade the render farm. It's cheaper to invest in cpu's than wasting time with non-artistic work (don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with that. I like to know the techniqe behind all that, but most of the artists out there don't care)


fair enough. cheers
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Old 11 November 2012   #51
Quote: I don't have any benchmarks. But after months working with it I can honestly say that it's faster than Vray and MR for exterior shots - especially with motion blur and dof (which both looks nice).


Arnold is stochastic and brute force. It's easily the slowest of the raytracers to converge.

But brute force makes it potentially easier to tune.
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Old 11 November 2012   #52
Quote: But what I love about the Vray for Maya version is that you can actually work in the scene while rendering - the gui is not freezing. (just like in the newest MtoA version)


ya, this is really nice. I frequently tune or test scripts while maya's doing a V-Ray render and it almost never causes crashes.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #53
Originally Posted by Bitter: Arnold is stochastic and brute force. It's easily the slowest of the raytracers to converge.

But brute force makes it potentially easier to tune.


Well to be honest, it looks nicer and feels faster. Even if the scene would render in MR a tad faster - the time I need to tune the scene in Arnold for speed is almost zero... but I get you.
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Old 11 November 2012   #54
How does Arnold compare to Maxwell in ease-of-use and quality? Not so concerned about speed.

Honest question not trying to start some flame war.

Also maybe someone could submit an Arnold render to this comparison?

Frosted glass challenge
 
Old 11 November 2012   #55
I need a fast preview renderer to instantly see my tweaks. I don't mind if finalrendering is half fast as X renderer. Can go out in the meantime. Life is too short to wait infront of a monitor
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Old 11 November 2012   #56
Originally Posted by Pin_pal: How does Arnold compare to Maxwell in ease-of-use and quality? Not so concerned about speed.

Honest question not trying to start some flame war.

Also maybe someone could submit an Arnold render to this comparison?

Frosted glass challenge


depends on what you're looking for. I hate it to deal with photometric values etc. in a render engine. I don't care what's the F-stop for the right DOf etc.
So for me, I would need more time in Maxwell than in Arnold.

Quality wise, Arnold sometimes really looks close to Maxwell but also depends on the shot. Glass renderings with dispersion and caustics etc. just looks the best in Maxwell imho.
But who needs that in VFX anyway... usually you fake such things.


Originally Posted by mustique: I need a fast preview renderer to instantly see my tweaks. I don't mind if finalrendering is half fast as X renderer. Can go out in the meantime. Life is too short to wait infront of a monitor


Like I said, I never saw such a fast feedback in the IPR like I did with Arnold

startin' to sound like a salesman
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Old 11 November 2012   #57
Originally Posted by mustique: I don't mind if finalrendering is half fast as X renderer.


this is a great luxury you have.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #58
when talking about raytracers its also important to talk about polycount and displacement.

arnold is supposed to be able to handle an insane amount of polygons. but i guess that didnt help sonyimageworks on green lantern. Tomar Re's skin looked bad
 
Old 11 November 2012   #59
Originally Posted by Panupat: Vray's offer is really neat in this case I suppose, with 1 license you get free 10 render node licenses.
For 3ds max it's even better: with 1 license you get unlimited render node licenses. The 10 node limit only applies to distributed rendering (rendering a single frame on just one machine, using the processing power of up to 10 other nodes).

Last edited by Laserschwert : 11 November 2012 at 01:28 PM.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #60
IPR in a brute force rendering scheme will provide sooner feedback. In Vray or mental ray, if you are not using brute force, then there is a caching phase for the irradiance cache. This delays IPR.

If you use brute force for this then the feedback in IPR for Vray or mental ray is the same as Arnold. In mental ray you set Final Gathering to "force" and maybe 4 or so rays. This means IPR processes immediately.

As for render times, we find the differences between raytracers to typically be about 1/2 to 4/5 the time of an Arnold render. But then Arnold doesn't claim to be fast (which is why all the talk of how fast it is has me wondering what people are rendering with it)

It's the brute force nature and simplicity of that that their claim to fame exists. Arnold wouldn't even be possible today if it wasn't for the hardware being fast enough to do it.

As a sidenote, the Sony Arnold contains many features and licensed technology that does not exist in the commercial Arnold. Some of these features may never make it due to licensing.

Also, Sony render times are misleading in the opposite direction, they typically render multiple frames per machine on a single core. This is similar to the Renderman workflow they had. However, Renderman was much faster but much more complex in the pipeline. This means render times you may hear from Sony are inflated compared to rendering on something using multi-core.
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