Why is Arnold Render not publicly available?

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Old 11 November 2012   #31
Originally Posted by gandhics: Does that mean you have to pay for render node license?

If that's the case, that's pricey.


$5k for 5 licenses is almost 1/2 of what PRman costs ($2000 per license), so it's pretty cheap for a quality renderer.
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Old 11 November 2012   #32
Originally Posted by leif3d: $5k for 5 licenses is almost 1/2 of what PRman costs ($2000 per license), so it's pretty cheap for a quality renderer.


So.. you need to pay $1k for a render node.

We have 15 workstation and 50 render node. Now we are paying 15*1350 = 20250.
If we want to switch to Arnold, it will cost 64k.
I don't think we can afford that price.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #33
Originally Posted by m0z: check out their Halo 4 cinematic from the main menu*, also Arnold.
And Sony's "Hotel Transylvania" is also done with Arnold. Pretty awesome...

I'd love to use Arnold more for interior shots. I used it already but it certainly takes some time to get noise free (almost)...


every sony imageworks movie since 2009 is Arnold. i read that they have modified their Arnold versions.i would like to know what Sony has in their Arnold? rumors are that they have caustics and some biased techniques for interior rendering.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #34
Originally Posted by gandhics: So.. you need to pay $1k for a render node.

We have 15 workstation and 50 render node. Now we are paying 15*1350 = 20250.
If we want to switch to Arnold, it will cost 64k.
I don't think we can afford that price.

Like any rendering engine in that price bracket, the cost varies based on the number of nodes.
If you were to buy 70 nodes I seriously doubt they'd charge you 14 5packs.
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Old 11 November 2012   #35
Originally Posted by gandhics: So.. you need to pay $1k for a render node.

We have 15 workstation and 50 render node. Now we are paying 15*1350 = 20250.
If we want to switch to Arnold, it will cost 64k.
I don't think we can afford that price.


/shrug. Maya is already $4,000 a seat.

Vray's offer is really neat in this case I suppose, with 1 license you get free 10 render node licenses.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #36
Originally Posted by ice-boy: every sony imageworks movie since 2009 is Arnold. i read that they have modified their Arnold versions.i would like to know what Sony has in their Arnold? rumors are that they have caustics and some biased techniques for interior rendering.


they using mental images qmc for sampling (unified in mr), osl support for shader writin and alot of other custom stuff.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #37
Originally Posted by gandhics: So.. you need to pay $1k for a render node.

We have 15 workstation and 50 render node. Now we are paying 15*1350 = 20250.
If we want to switch to Arnold, it will cost 64k.
I don't think we can afford that price.


I don't know the details because I'm not the one that dealt with the price tags here but as I understood you pay much at first but in the following years you pay much less. With MentalRay and almost every other product you have to pay the licenses each year. AFIK (!) you don't pay the full price every year with Arnold.
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Old 11 November 2012   #38
Originally Posted by DePaint: I really don't get it. People say "Arnold is great, Arnold is great". Some say it is "the most powerful renderer ever made". And then, when you want to find out more about it, or try it, there is nothing on their site other than a crappy email address???

This smells like a shitty marketing-stunt to me... Pretending that their renderer is "really exclusive" or "really special" or something.

Arnold should have a site with pricing info, features info, a user gallery, and a 30 day trial or something like it.

Wake me when the Solid Angle people have learned how to create a website for their product...




Their Product, Their Website, Their Company.

I've known other companies who wont sell to individuals, because they dont want to support whiners, whingers, and people who dont rtfm.

Its ""very expensive"" to support that bunch. So they say 'official' companies only, who have skilled and professional people on site, who solve problems, not create them.

If you dont like their policy, get a c++ compiler. Have Fun.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #39
Originally Posted by Kzin: they using mental images qmc for sampling (unified in mr), osl support for shader writin and alot of other custom stuff.
i have been reading a lot about this. is it that good?
 
Old 11 November 2012   #40
We have just finished up our first job with Arnold here at finish http://www.finish.tv/work/view/for-your-christmas (for those of you that want to see) and I must say we have been very impressed with its speed and ease of use. It handles a huge amount of geometry with all the bells and whistles turned on(motion blur, GI etc) whilst still allowing manageable render times.

As far as I'm aware solidangle are starting to ramp up and a new website is expected to launch soon

H
 
Old 11 November 2012   #41
Originally Posted by H2: We have just finished up our first job with Arnold here at finish http://www.finish.tv/work/view/for-your-christmas (for those of you that want to see) and I must say we have been very impressed with its speed and ease of use. It handles a huge amount of geometry with all the bells and whistles turned on(motion blur, GI etc) whilst still allowing manageable render times.

May I ask your opinion about Arnold's materials/shaders? Someone wrote a tutorial about Arnold skin shader in his blog and it looked quite complex :O Is it as hard as it seems?
 
Old 11 November 2012   #42
Originally Posted by ice-boy: i have been reading a lot about this. is it that good?


if you know vrays dmc, its this but tuning is easier with unified, less controls.
i use only this for rendering since mr 3.9. mb is nearly free, except you have strong blur and need more samples to clean it.

easy of use is the key of arnold. but you have to optimize the sampling values alot to get a good balance between rendertime and quality. and keep in mind, arnold is a path tracer, so alot of indirect light kills the performance faster then mr crashes because of a ad bug.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #43
Originally Posted by Panupat: /shrug. Maya is already $4,000 a seat.

Vray's offer is really neat in this case I suppose, with 1 license you get free 10 render node licenses.

Well.. for VRay for 3ds max, render node is free(unlimited).

Originally Posted by m0z: I don't know the details because I'm not the one that dealt with the price tags here but as I understood you pay much at first but in the following years you pay much less. With MentalRay and almost every other product you have to pay the licenses each year. AFIK (!) you don't pay the full price every year with Arnold.

Do you need to pay yearly maintanance? Dang...

Last edited by gandhics : 11 November 2012 at 07:46 PM.
 
Old 11 November 2012   #44
Red face

My experience with Arnold has been underwhelming. It didn't change my life or my opinions on rendering. In my opinion, the standard implementation is quite poor in both maya and softimage - scattered, all over the place without a pre-built central gui. In regards to shader creation, the prospect of rebuilding shaders that I already have in prman seems like a waste of time. The results are not better.

The subsurface function out of the box provides unsatisfactory results. I was not able to get a good looking skin result. It was way too diffuse or too this or too that. Other renders of skin from arnold that I've seen online have exhibited the same problems. And then when someone claims that arnold was used on a commercial that includes skin, who knows if the skin was done with mray or vray and comped in. Whos to say?

This leads me to believe that the devs need to try harder on the function itself. The picture of skin that's shown in the manual is quite shocking in comparison to other subsurface results from mray or vray. Its papery. Now, I have implemented Jensen before in prman and I have his book and other papers on subsurface transport. The thing is that you can't "just" implement jensen. You have to go beyond that and implement additional papers as well to get an optimal result. However, I ask myself - why should I try to fix something like this when the developers cant do it themselves?

Many people think that the fast interaction speed is a selling point. I disagree, but OK. On the other hand if you look at the SprayTrace plugin for mental ray or the ReLight renderer they use a rayserver technique which gets you even quicker results than arnold. This rayserver method was released with source many years ago...in 2001 and then an updated was released with source implementation in 2005. Its trivial to implement this into your renderer and get interactive updates since all you do is continuously trace a point in a custom output window. The technique is dead simple, anyhow.

I dont think that Arnold is worth fretting over. Its not "that good". I would never use it over prman, in any situation, even if it was given to me for free. Some may say that prman is being phased out into raytracers like arnold. I disagree - you have to really know what you're doing with prman but if you get to that point you'll look at arnold and threads like this with people getting upset that its "secretive" and say to yourself "Oh, thats nice".
 
Old 11 November 2012   #45
isn't it the same as with MR standalone? you have to pay yearly for that too afaik...

I just looked at the quote, you pay about a quarter of the price you pay for a license each year for support and maintenance. So even if it's quite a bit at first, the ongoing costs aren't so much and imho it's worth it because you save much time to setup scenes with that baby.
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