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Old 10 October 2012   #16
Originally Posted by gauranga108: Any other apps using voxels out there?


If Euclideon can get their shit together on their "Unlimited Detail" tech, then voxels may turn up in all sorts of games:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4

They got 2 Million Dollars of government funding recently, and they say that their new website is close to launching:

http://www.euclideon.com/

It looks like they are targeting engineering/scientific spatial imaging (e.g. LIDAR scans) with their first software.

If their tech performs well, it may start to turn up in realtime games within the next years...
 
Old 10 October 2012   #17
Originally Posted by DePaint: If Euclideon can get their shit together on their "Unlimited Detail" tech, then voxels may turn up in all sorts of games:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4

They got 2 Million Dollars of government funding recently, and they say that their new website is close to launching:

http://www.euclideon.com/

It looks like they are targeting engineering/scientific spatial imaging (e.g. LIDAR scans) with their first software.

If their tech performs well, it may start to turn up in realtime games within the next years...

Or it may turn out that they're a scam like the experts say they are and there really is no such thing as *unlimited* anything, because computers have finite resources. Investors tend to fall for these types of businesses which, through very obfuscated language, proclaim themselves to be the revolution in something, but time and time again right before the big reveal it becomes evident. People (and investors) just have something in their brain wiring which makes them give their hopes up whenever some crook comes along and promises them radical change.

I'm not saying they're 100% scam, most likely they're using some kind of existing voxel tree renderer technology (which existed for decades). What I'm saying is that if it looks like a scam, and smells like a scam...

P.S. I love how they claim their voxel... err sorry "3d atom" data doesn't take more space than polygonal data would. Of course, it is a work in progress, they won't release anything untill their "compacting" is 100% done, we wouldn't want to "eat those cookies until they're baked".

Last edited by BrainFreeze : 10 October 2012 at 08:56 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #18
Well the future might be in Quantum Computers, for example you see your render before you even start modelling JK.
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Old 10 October 2012   #19
The man invented the wheel millions of years ago. We still use it in our cars. Are our cars old? Not necessarily. Got it?
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Old 10 October 2012   #20
Originally Posted by BrainFreeze: Or it may turn out that they're a scam like the experts say they are and there really is no such thing as *unlimited* anything, because computers have finite resources.


It depends on what you mean by "unlimited". You obviously can't store or display an unlimited amount of data, but you can procedurally create an unlimited amount of data as needed. A fractal pattern, say, has unlimited detail in the sense that you can zoom into it indefitely without loss of quality, but that doesn't mean it's infinitely large.

I wouldn't quite call the Euclideon video a scam, just misleading. Their specific technical claims are (probably) true. They just neglect to mention the various very major downsides to using voxels, and try to present their engine as a lot more groundbreaking than it actually is.
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Old 10 October 2012   #21
Originally Posted by BrainFreeze: P.S. I love how they claim their voxel... err sorry "3d atom" data doesn't take more space than polygonal data would. Of course, it is a work in progress, they won't release anything untill their "compacting" is 100% done, we wouldn't want to "eat those cookies until they're baked".


They are about to release their first software called "Geoverse", for viewing huge LIDAR scan datasets interactively, in 3D:

http://www.euclideon.com/geoverse.html

Read this:

http://www.euclideon.com/files/inc/GEOVERSE.pdf

It may change your mind about what they are doing.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #22
Nice brochure, didn't really change my mind. As I said I'm not saying they're 100% scam, what is shown in the videos looks like voxel-based rendering.

But c'mon:

Quote: Instead of loading point cloud data into RAM, Euclideon’s Unlimited Detail algorithm streams the data straight from the hard drive which enables files of unlimited size to be opened instantaneously...


If this is marketing speak, it is a lie which would put it in the scam category. If it is technical speak then I wouldn't put a lot of faith into anyone who doesn't understand terms like "unlimited" and "instantaneous".

Oh and I vaguely remember in their earlier videos how they claimed !conspiracy! on the parts of NVidia and AMD over graphics cards which rendered polygons. Very shady stuff designed for naive people.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #23
Originally Posted by Malanjo: The man invented the wheel millions of years ago. We still use it in our cars. Are our cars old? Not necessarily. Got it?


I agree with this
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Old 10 October 2012   #24
polygons do it for me
 
Old 10 October 2012   #25
Originally Posted by Meloncov: It depends on what you mean by "unlimited". You obviously can't store or display an unlimited amount of data, but you can procedurally create an unlimited amount of data as needed. A fractal pattern, say, has unlimited detail in the sense that you can zoom into it indefitely without loss of quality, but that doesn't mean it's infinitely large.

It's limited by floating point precision on your computer. Try opening up any Mandelbrot set renderer and see how far you can zoom in. It most certainly will not be "unlimited". There's a concept of infinity in math, but it doesn't make sense in our (quantum) real world.

Besides, what UD people are claiming is unlimited data sets, which implies I can display 9999 etabytes of unique, compressed, point-cloud data if I wanted to. Can I?
 
Old 10 October 2012   #26
Originally Posted by BrainFreeze: Besides, what UD people are claiming is unlimited data sets, which implies I can display 9999 etabytes of unique, compressed, point-cloud data if I wanted to. Can I?


Their website states that Datasets up to 140 TB in size can currently be viewed with their software tech.

That's pretty damn large compared to how big current game 3D scenes are - a few hundred megabytes to a few GBs at most.

They are also aiming the software at scientific/engineering visualization.

This is one area where you definitely don't get away with lies or hyperbole.

I don't think the Euclideon people are lying about what their tech can do.

What would be the point of doing that, other than massive embarrassment & becoming pretty much "unfundable" for the rest of your business life?
 
Old 10 October 2012   #27
Originally Posted by DePaint: Their website states that Datasets up to 140 TB in size can currently be viewed with their software tech.:

That's hardly "unlimited". 140TB is a very small number between 0 and infinity

Originally Posted by DePaint: I don't think the Euclideon people are lying about what their tech can do.

Have you watched the responses their CEO gives in the video to some of the questions of interviewer? His pants were on fire.

Originally Posted by DePaint: What would be the point of doing that, other than massive embarrassment & becoming pretty much "unfundable" for the rest of your business life?

To receive venture capital money from gullible angel investors and tax-payer money from Aussie govt.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #28
why would they lie?

you would be surprised how many ponzy schemes get extremely large by the sheer inertia the gullible and greedy bring to the table. witness this thread and the hordes of believers.

once in for a penny you're in for a pound. and, before you realize it and there is no getting out of it. most con artists are not that clever. this one seems rather pathetic and sad really.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #29
Originally Posted by mr.bean: why would they lie?

you would be surprised how many ponzy schemes get extremely large by the sheer inertia the gullible and greedy bring to the table. witness this thread and the hordes of believers.

once in for a penny you're in for a pound. and, before you realize it and there is no getting out of it. most con artists are not that clever. this one seems rather pathetic and sad really.


1) They have shown off fully working, interactive demos of their realtime technology, running at over 20 FPS on a laptop. So the technology works, even though what they showed was a work in progress, and not terribly polished.

2) They have received a government grant based on the technology's promise. If their tech wasn't real and working, as verified by independent experts, there is no way that grant would have happened. So the technology is real, and not a hoax as some people here seem to believe.

3) Nobody in their right mind advertises software aimed at engineering/scientific use that doesn't exist. Doing that would mean that the Euclideon people would never see another penny of funding for the rest of their working lives.

In summary, there is no good reason for these people to lie about what their tech can do.

I believe that their technology is real, and that they "disappeared from view" only in order to polish their tech, and probably wrestle with getting its core functions patented, a difficult process that can take anywhere from months to years to finalize.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #30
So far their stuff seems to be based around moving through static data..when it is as fast and versatile for animated content, looks good, and isn't cumbersome, then they will get somewhere.

Scientific visualization of massive static datasets does not say "production animation or games oriented" to me. Sounds more like they got to a certain point and figured out it may be better suited for those sorts of applications rather than how they were originally selling it for entertainment.

Whatever happened to Animation Master? That was all spline patches, which raised their own issues, but hey, it's not polygons.

Like someone said, the wheel is still in use because it works. When someone has something that can truly outdo the wheel, it'll catch on. Until then it will just be increasingly clever uses and enhanced versions of the wheel.
 
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