Blur, Goon, Kick Controversy

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Old 10 October 2012   #61
On a happy kickstarter note Morpheus 2.0 got funded with days to go still http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...orpheus-rig-v20

I slightly don't think Goon will make it's by the deadline but regardless I like seeing the CG community utilize community encouragement/funding for projects.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #62
Originally Posted by MDuffy: Agreed. The problem with The Goon Kickstarter is that it does not create a final product that the supporters can receive, and that goes against the charter of Kickstarter.


Where exactly does it state that you have to provide backers with a finished product? Show me.

People are missing the fact that previous projects have done stretch goals in the past. Maybe Blur could offer stretch goals to compensate people if the movie gets made. I'm pretty sure "profit sharing" is against the rules of KS but they might be able to work some sort of movie ticket deal out. I think the point people are missing is this is an opportunity to push forward something we've been asking for here in the west for a long time, mature animated movies that aren't all about talking animals. Even though KS isn't a store, people go in with this mindset of "what are you going to give me". If this movie is successful you'll have taken part in a massive paradigm shift for western animation. Would you be willing to contribute if they wanted to make the entire movie funded by KS?! Do you realistically think they could raise the 35m they want to do that?! If Fincher spent his personal money on every passion project he'd be broke by now. He and blur already spent close to a half a million dollars getting that test made and the risk adverse Hollywood system won't green-light it because "Beowulf" and "Final Fantasy" tanked.

That's okay though continue with the cynicism and we can all complain together about Shrek 5 billion or whatever number they're on now when "The Goon" doesn't make their funding goal...
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Old 10 October 2012   #63
Originally Posted by unitzer07: If this movie is successful you'll have taken part in a massive paradigm shift for western animation.

Please forgive me my ignorance, but what "massive paradigm shift" would that be? Kickstarter funding for these kind of projects? I must be missing something...
 
Old 10 October 2012   #64
Originally Posted by unitzer07: That's okay though continue with the cynicism and we can all complain together about Shrek 5 billion or whatever number they're on now when "The Goon" doesn't make their funding goal...


You should read up on the term "false dichotomy."

So, let's take this KS model to a possible conclusion: Studios discover, through a couple of successful ventures, that fanboys will pay money up front for the pre-production of films they want to see. If your story-of-choice is popular enough in some other medium, fans will pay up front to begin development - ignoring that most movies have no guarantee of being "good" and that movies in general have a very high rate of failure. Genre movies (comic books, superheros, sci-fi, etc.) are then only made by popular pre-paid consensus. Great, now the public directly controls what gets made and what doesn't. But what could possibly go wrong with that?

The studios love this since no studio exec has to step outside of this cushy, blame-free model and it saves them a ton of money. If it flops, it's the public's fault. But, and it's a big but, what happens when 3 fantasy flicks fail in a row? Does the studio look at the tallies and say "I don't care if you fanboys dump $10m into Hammer of Grabthar preproduction - it's never going to happen!" Now you are simply throwing your money at projects you hope will happen, then hope will be good if they are even made. Don't even think about your chances of appeasing all the rabid fanboys of any given story or graphic novel. And then, after all that, you get to pay to see it (maybe). Yeah, this sounds like a brave new world just waiting to mow down the old one.
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Old 10 October 2012   #65
Originally Posted by unitzer07: Where exactly does it state that you have to provide backers with a finished product? Show me.


http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines

Guideline number one states that "A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended."

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a Goon movie. I would love to see more English language animation targeted to an audience of teens and up. But the way they are approaching this Kickstarter campaign isn't 100% right.

Cheers,
Michael
 
Old 10 October 2012   #66
From the current money raised, time left & usual Kickstarter trends, it's looking like they won't reach their target which will apparently make a lot of people happy.

I've made all the points I've wanted to make about my thoughts on this Kickstarter but I just wanted to add this - No-one has ever tried this before, it hasn't been done and there are no frames of reference for how or if it will work. Every time something new/different comes along there are always hordes of people aching to point out why it won't succeed, how short-sighted the creators are, how foolish the followers are...etc. but they never once offer a viable alternative.
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Old 10 October 2012   #67
Originally Posted by HFnord: Please forgive me my ignorance, but what "massive paradigm shift" would that be? Kickstarter funding for these kind of projects? I must be missing something...

The paradigm of public funding.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #68
Originally Posted by AJ: .....Every time something new/different comes along there are always hordes of people aching to point out why it won't succeed, how short-sighted the creators are, how foolish the followers are...etc. but they never once offer a viable alternative.


Perhaps, but I don't see much of that here, if any. Also, saying that there are lot of people criticizing does not negate the foundations of their criticisms. Most people here (including myself) would like to see projects like these succeed. But they need to be approached in thoughtful and logical ways, and the consensus seems to be that this one wasn't. And plenty of viable alternatives have been suggested, with most of them following already proven models (though few of the other indy routes to production have been predictably profitable). If this KS fails to get funded, I think that also says a lot about the saleability of this franchise. So maybe the studio bean counters (uncreative bastards that they are) know a thing or two about P&L.

The biggest problem with Hollywood is not trying to get niche projects funded (as difficult as that is), but the death-grip studios have on marketing and distribution. It starts with blockbusters and works its way down to on-demand internet. It's like Rockefeller at the end of the 19th century: he didn't get rich making or selling things; he got rich by building and controlling railroads to ship everything. That way he was able to control all commerce and ask for whatever he wanted. Movie studios are in much the same situation. Until more accessible (and hopefully profitable) avenues exist for people to sell entertainment product (and not simply do every project on spec, hoping to ultimately sell it off to Hollywood), everything is just a band-aid on the problem.
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Old 10 October 2012   #69
Originally Posted by MDuffy: http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines

Guideline number one states that "A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended."



A story reel will be completed. Nowhere in that statement does it say that the donors be furnished with the finished product.

If Kickstarter deemed the project in violation of it's terms "The Goon" wouldn't have been allowed to launch...

Originally Posted by Artbot: You should read up on the term "false dichotomy."

So, let's take this KS model to a possible conclusion: Studios discover, through a couple of successful ventures....


It's not about getting the studios to realize they can scam the fanboys. It's about showing the studios that this type of project has a market. Sorry I fail t
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Last edited by unitzer07 : 10 October 2012 at 11:26 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #70
woops double post...mods can delete this if they want
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Last edited by unitzer07 : 10 October 2012 at 11:27 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #71
I don't really care,

but I'm just not rooting for this kickstarter. If they can't make it happen via traditional means, it probably isn't meant to be.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #72
Intrestingly (or not) a scotish band - God help the Girl - have done something similar though Kickstarter. They wanted $100k to complete the budget of their film. For donations you get posters, books, music...general stuff that the fans want. You do not get any financial return on the success of the film or any free tickets.

In the end they got the cash they needed, and as far as I can tell, no one had anything negative to say about it. Personally I'm looking forward to getting my $50 signed poster and signed CD, and I have no problem with them investing that money in something else I might be intrested in
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Last edited by mushroomgod : 10 October 2012 at 11:08 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #73
Quote: Sure, Japan might greenlight it, but Japanese production budgets are notoriously low. Ghibli films probably command the highest budgets, so let's take a look at Miyazaki's latest, Ponyo, which had a budget of 3.4 billion yen (about $42.5 million USD at today's exchange rates). Compare that with the latest CG film, Sony's Hotel Transylvania, which Box Office Mojo reports a budget of $85 million USD. If Blur can make a feature length movie with half the typical CG movie budget and maintain 100% Blur quality, then all power to them... But realistically, $42.5 million will put you in the neighborhood of Delgo ($40 million) and Hoodwinked Too!: Hood vs Evil ($30 million).


And why are Japanese productions extremely low and US so extremely high? Cost of living is higher in Japan than Hollywood.

I noticed some said they are bucking the system and kudos to them but I don't see them as bucking the system. They are trying to get with the system. They need the system's money. They have to get this money to make a reel to appease the Hwood kings.

Also the sad thing is if they don't reach their goal it will appear as if there really is no support for the story. That will be even worse.

I do wish them the best though.

Oh and if they do get the greenlight I can only imagine what will happen to that story and reel.

Hwood crackhead: Wow that was a great movie.

Hwood crackhead no 2: Yeah it sure was. I think this will make a great movie.

Our Heroes: Yay (in unision) that is what we thought and why we put so much into it.

Hwood crackhead: It definately shows.
Hwood crackhead 2: Yup especially while I'm on my shrooms.

Hwood crackhead: Well everything is in order we will fund this film

Our Heroes at Blur: Yay (in unison)

Hwood crackhead: We will have to make a few changes though.

Hwood Crackhead 2: Yeah, that big guy looks like the Hulk, can we make him Red? At least that is what the shrooms are telling me.

Hwood Crackhead: Yeah and we need to revamp the story. I noticed it had some vampires in it. Let's make him the lead and he falls in love with that chick with big boobs, but can we make her younger?

Hwood Crackhead 2: My shrooms say yes. And while we are at it the script has to go, we want it darker and more realistic, like Batman, only CG, like Beowulf.

Our Heroes: But you said you loved it.

Hwood Crackhead : We do. But dude this is Hollywood, what did you think this was going to be flowers and a date, nah dude this is total pillage my friend. Now we need some more teen angst, what do you think Crackhead number 2.

Hwood Crackhead 2: shroooms

Hwood Cracked: Emo it is! Young, teen angst emo. That will be the Goons sidekick. No one wants to see an old bald guy in a hat. Hot, teen, anime looking dude.

Our heroes: (sigh)

Hwood Crackhead 2: I may have been to high to notice but did this movie say anything about Mars? You know how people hate movies with the word Mars in it.

20 years down the road after the pillaging and failure of this film we get the Hi Def Hologram version with the release of the special reel as an extra.

Last edited by AangtheAvatar : 10 October 2012 at 11:17 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #74
Originally Posted by Michael5188: Fair enough, I can see wanting this specific movie to be made, it just annoys me this is where we have to go for that to happen, and that the big studios who already have it easiest in the whole film making process are getting it even easier. I mean they must looove this, now they get to make a decision after viewing a full story reel. demo short film, and comics with no money down? It's a studio exec's dream come true.

But then again I guess you can look at it as a win win for everyone. Studio makes money with less risk, Blur gets an amazing opportunity (and money), and we get the movies we want to see.


I think what needs to be said is that what's happening here is very specific to this film. The pitch on Kickstarter is "Let's make it happen". This means that if you are already willing to pay TWICE to see this film you are definitely in the camp of "Let's Make it Happen" regardless.

It's a test.

If people want it enough. It will work. BUT it doesn't mean it will work for all the millions of people U.S. Domestic or that it will work all around the world. So major studio involvement isn't guaranteed.

Also the Kickstarter is clear about Perks and Deliverables - the full length film isn't one of them so again if you pitch in.... Those terms are clear and you're "paid" in Perks and the Deliverable (ie: Story Reel).

Again the main drive is "Let's Make this Happen".. So the call is for anybody willing to pay the extra dollar to see an R-rated animated film.

Others may follow if this works, but it isn't guaranteed to work because you are putting the masses on Kickstarter in the place of "Pre-Producers"... And that means the film can fail at that level too because you can propose something R-rated and tasteless for example.

Natural Law ensures balance.
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Old 10 October 2012   #75
Originally Posted by unitzer07: It's not about getting the studios to realize they can scam the fanboys. It's about showing the studios that this type of project has a market. Sorry I fail t....


Quote: ....we can all complain together about Shrek 5 billion or whatever number they're on now when "The Goon" doesn't make their funding goal...


That's your false dichotomy. If you don't do this thing, then that thing will happen.
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